MMS #96 - Sales Success: From Value Creation to Objection Handling with Bob Burg & Jeff West

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, welcome to Mastering Modern Selling. I am Brandon Lee, one of the co-hosts and I want to share with you a little bit about today's episode. Today's episode is called Sales Success from Value Creation to Objection Handling and it's with Bob Burg and Jeff Seap West.

[00:00:18] Look, today's was very practical. That's my motivation for everybody. We start the conversation off talking about how to have the right mindset around objections in a process for accepting objections as a positive thing.

[00:00:34] And using an objection to actually draw yourself closer to your perspective customer and even helping them feel positive about you in addressing that objection. I love that Bob Burg does spend a lot of time talking about storytelling. Jeff goes through a very great three-step process of handling objections.

[00:01:00] And the name of modern selling, what I loved about this is we started talking a bit about the brain activity that goes on with buyers.

[00:01:10] And that how we need to incorporate the emotional with the logic and how one of the things that we can do in this modern world with social media.

[00:01:20] And the content that we produce is our ability to have content that addresses objections and establish us as being known, liked and trusted with our network and with our perspective customers before we ever get on the call.

[00:01:39] That's one of the huge values of this two-dimensional tool called social media and all these different screens. And we chat a bit about that, so be looking for that inside. And as always, this show is brought to you by Fisbump.

[00:01:53] And if you are a Gen X or baby boomer, aged business leader or owner and you believe that you should be using, I'll link to that better.

[00:02:04] You believe in the networking value, you believe in like we talked about in this episode. The power of being top of mind and relevant in front of people creating deposits sharing your value and becoming known before you ever ask for a meeting.

[00:02:19] Then Fisbump might be right from you for you. So if there's an interest there, I'd love to chat with you and go learn about us at gitfisbumps.com at gitfisbumps.com.

[00:02:31] And now I hope you enjoy this awesome episode with Jeff C. West and Bob Berg. Have a great day. Okay, here we are. Welcome episode number 96. 90% water and sunny. We only have what four more, Brandon to the big one zero zero four more to 100. That's a good number.

[00:02:55] Yeah, so and I know we have a big guest coming up on that one as well right? We do. We're Daniel Disney joining us again for episode 100. He was with us for 50 and we haven't for 100.

[00:03:07] So I'm Tom Burton. I'm here with one of my co-hosts Brandon Lee. Carson is on vacation, but we have got two great guests to take. And we're going to talk to you. Bob Berg and Jeff West, the co-authors of Street Wise to Sales Wise. Gentlemen welcome. Thank you.

[00:03:27] Thank you. So we're going to talk to you. Hi, I'm Joe Finne talking to you quick. I'm just going to play fanboy and sorry Jeff. I don't have the history but I meant Bob.

[00:03:37] I'm probably been close to 15 years. Well, fish. When you were speaking at Fresno Pacific University and I was doing a little ad junk thing there. Well, I had this crazy idea of moving my family to our farm and outside of Fresno.

[00:03:52] And I heard you talk around the go-giver then and it was that along with how to win friends and influence people was a big, big transformation for me and how I chose and wanted to show up and be more other oriented.

[00:04:08] Not that I was a complete self-centered jerk beforehand but it was a catalyst to get me even further down the road. And so I'm grateful to be on to have you on our show and for you just spend time with that.

[00:04:21] So there's my little bit of fanboy love for you. Well, I appreciate that very much. And I remember that in the age when it was at the end of the year. They were just such nice welcoming warm people was such a delight to be there.

[00:04:35] Yeah, very good people. And the war was actually probably the temperature outside because that central California where it sits, you know like 110 to 115 this time of year. But how long ago was that?

[00:04:47] Oh gosh, now you're going to make me think that was at least, probably 12 years ago, 12, 12, 15 years ago. Yeah, so little experience under the belt to talk about here. I don't feel what I have done quit. No bad, yes, yes.

[00:05:04] So don't feel bad, Brendan. I've known Bob for 20 years. We've been friends for 20 years. No, no, no, in his work before that. I do the same now. So don't feel bad. Yeah, this name boy comes out. Also, all right Tom, we'll let you get us on track.

[00:05:21] What's like, Bob? I'm very intrigued to talk about you both co-authored a book called Street Wise to Sales Wise become objection proof in beat the sales blues. I'm very, very interested to talk about both. I'm actually the objection proof in beating the sales blues.

[00:05:39] I know we're going to talk about some of the things that Brandon just brought out Bob that you talked about 12, 15 years ago.

[00:05:45] But let's start and Bob, why don't we start with you? Tell us a little bit about yourself and your background and Jeff will do the same with you. Well, basically I began as a radio and television broadcaster, failed miserably at that and he got into sales.

[00:06:01] And after three months, I was on my way to failing miserably at that because I had absolutely no idea how to sell and I'd never had any instruction or not to do it.

[00:06:08] And apparently the company where I was working didn't have much more because their advice made the training was to go out and sell some stuff.

[00:06:16] And so I floundered for about three months when I'm in the bookstore looking for something but I back, you know, this is 40 years ago.

[00:06:26] So back then it's not as though there were a whole lot of sales books and if you didn't know to look for them, you just wouldn't have known. But fortunately I came across to two books one was by Tom Hott, and the other by Ziegler.

[00:06:38] And I thought, wow, there's actually a way to sell. There's more than I'm doing. And Bob, you're proud. I mean, I didn't know. So I took those books home and I like to say I didn't read them. I devoured them.

[00:06:54] And within about three weeks, my sales began to go through the roof and that began to journey for me and sales. And personal development began, I started reading all the books that, well, they're probably in all our bookshelves.

[00:07:09] The hot wind friends and uploading people, the magic of thinking big, psychosygrinetics and the richest man in Babylon and all of our men. You know, all the things that helped me to grow on the inside, success could manifest on the outside. Right? But I just loved it.

[00:07:27] I loved it, and eventually work my way up to sales matter to another company years later and began to speak on the top again and have been doing that for quite a while now. And that's really, really it.

[00:07:41] I like to say my claim to fame is I was a good sales person, but it's because I learned how to do it. And that was pretty much it. Jeff's story is much more funner than mine. Yeah, come on Jeff give us something really interesting.

[00:07:57] A funerous such a great work. Hey Jeff, if we go Bob, can I ask you a question? Because this is kind of been a recurring theme, I think over the last couple of months.

[00:08:07] Was it doing the inside work and helping you believe in yourself or the sales skills that had a bigger impact on being a more successful in sales? And I know it's a very black and white question. That's a great question.

[00:08:21] The sales skills are vitally important, but unless you grow on the inside, those sales skills are going to keep you very, very average. Right? It's really learning how to succeed first in your head and then in your heart. Right?

[00:08:41] And from there, you know, that's why I really think success begins on the inside, it manifests itself on the outside. Now, you can have all that great personal development material.

[00:08:54] But if you don't learn the mechanics of selling and understand human nature and understand, well, you're also, that's going to harm your growth. So I don't think it's either or it's an end at the same time.

[00:09:05] I think that you really, what you learn from all the personal development as you grow as a human being, that allows you to grow up, please as well. So do you feel good? Yeah. All right, Jeff, sorry to cut you off there.

[00:09:20] I had to get that question in. No worries at all gentlemen. Thank you so much for having us all. I actually knew I was going into sales from the first grade, so I'm got a degree to be a band director. That's true.

[00:09:36] Actually, I did, I have two degrees in music and I've actually been music head in a master's in music composition. And those two degrees and a $10 bill will get me a cup of coffee at a good coffee shop.

[00:09:48] But actually, I ended up in sales by default right out of college. And I look back now and I say it was divine prominence, but my wife needed to go to school in an area.

[00:09:59] There were no teaching jobs up and so I ended up getting a job in sales and I stayed in the industry for 45 years now. I guess it is.

[00:10:08] I started off in the musical instrument industry had a wonderful mentor there who gave me my first book on sales and personal development of how I raised myself from failure to success in selling my brain better.

[00:10:22] I ended up in the industrial uniform industry was one of the number one sales people in the nation were them and they promoted me and moved me to Texas, where I was their first general manager in the state.

[00:10:34] A couple years later that company got bought out and I began an insurance career. And that is really where my life began to take off. It was a struggle in the beginning because I was going under financially at the time because of the buyout that had happened.

[00:10:49] But it was the best thing that ever happened to me. And I had a 30, 20 E plus year career with a Fortune 500 insurance company worked by way up from entry level sales to being a state sales manager in Texas and so it was.

[00:11:06] It's been a lucrative career and I loved every minute of it. About 10 years ago partly because of my friend there because I knew him so well.

[00:11:15] I had a that I was going to change directions and wrote my first book back then in 2014 and Bob coached me on the speaking career.

[00:11:25] No, that's why I've been doing that since but it's been absolutely blessing with what I've done and you were talking about your your Bob family moment.

[00:11:34] I've started but my career and the insurance industry I went from being a district manager that would make the numbers one year missed in the next not a super star but not going to get fired.

[00:11:44] And then I was given two books back in January of 2000 to change my career John Maxwell's 21 year irrefutable laws of leadership.

[00:11:54] And some book that I'd never heard of before by and author I didn't know called in mystery for all's by Bob bird those two books changed my life.

[00:12:04] And so my career just really took off after that and one when I was a regional manager of my administrator buzz me one day says you have a phone call.

[00:12:11] I said who is it she said some guy named Bob bird when I had been promoting endless referrals to everybody speaking to new agent training schools.

[00:12:19] I mean for two years at this point and I said sure it's Bob bird got a buddy on the phone pull in my leg right now. And I get on the phone and he says hi Jeff this is Bob bird and I said sure it is.

[00:12:33] And he said it really was Bob and then I told him how much the book had meant that we became friends in any way stayed friends on the business. Oh, that's awesome.

[00:12:44] This is Jeff's first by was reaching out in me to be turning my video but I was kind of bored. I think whatever you're seeing Jeff. Yeah, just so this is his first book the unexpected tour guide which is a beautiful business parable.

[00:12:59] And that was when we got him started but what's interesting is now author a co-authored through our authored and co-authored three-flops.

[00:13:06] They've all won awards he's a brilliant writer, but it's interesting because I always say you know which Jeff is Jeff and I can have very long sales conversations. We love sales. We love to sell. We love to buy things from people who love to sell.

[00:13:19] You know, I mean we just we love sales. But Jeff is not only a great teacher of sales and I hope later on he'll talk about his brilliant concept of fusion points and he developed after he retired but he's become a student of writing.

[00:13:36] Yeah, I'm telling you this guy has just kind of the world of story like you can't imagine so. That's awesome. Thanks for sharing that Bob. I mean did you have Jeff? I mean if Bob's talking about your writing skills or something there.

[00:13:51] Oh thank you. He's a good friend and very kind and I do work very hard at getting better all the time. Well we're going to we're going to drill into some of these questions. I first of all I want to welcome our friend Bob.

[00:14:02] Welcome a low-hot from Bob. Yeah. And but it's excited to see that we have two guys with gray hair. Yeah. And Mr. what you're talking about. I have no hair which means I really know when I'm talking about.

[00:14:17] And Brandon, you're getting there. So you're kind of a little bit there as well. Brandon. So now the pressure is on. So let's start by talking a little bit about the book that you co-authored the street wise to sales wise.

[00:14:31] And I want to talk first or let's jump in first about this objection proof and one of the things you say is it's no longer objections or no longer anything. You need to be fearing or be worried or concerned about.

[00:14:45] I think that's something that a lot of sales people were always worried about in the objection or something that's going to get in the way.

[00:14:52] Tell us a little bit more what you mean by that and pack that a bit and how does that fit into the to the street wise to sales wise approach. Well you know objections have always been the pain of the sales person with resistance, right?

[00:15:09] The objections would get in the way of the sale taking place. And when you think about a logically, you wouldn't think that would be the case because, you know, once a person has any kind of training and sales,

[00:15:23] perhaps with the company that they're starting with and most companies have a sales training program. You know, you know what the objections are going to be probably within three sales conversations. You know what all the objections are or most of them that every so often something's possible.

[00:15:42] You know, most of them. So you think, okay, I know the objections that people in my company can teach me how to work with them and what the answers are. So the person has an objection. I know the answer. I'll answer it. They'll buy fantastic.

[00:15:58] And yet it doesn't happen that way. And so objections remain a sticking point for that person. And then they start fearing the objections. And as we know, what we fear most is what is going to transpire because we're putting out that energy for it.

[00:16:15] We start trying to avoid it and we start doesn't matter because those objections are still there. So this happens. So there's a couple of issues with what we're generally taught and that is to overcome objections. You've got to overcome objections in order to do well in sales.

[00:16:36] There's a challenge with that. And that is, you cannot overcome an objection. I can't, you can't know and can overcome an objection. Why? Well the answer is with the word overcome. Is there any perspective customer or client who wants to be overcome by their salesperson?

[00:16:56] To be told, you're wrong. No, no, no, no. Now just listen to me and I've never had a prospect respond by saying thank you for pointing out the error of my ways. It's the error that I've overcome.

[00:17:13] I've come from the same Latin root of convinced, convinced, and convinced, and convinced, shear ament to conquer. Okay? No one wants to have their objections conquered. So that's the first part. So we're handling the objection from a kind of a false frame and unproductive frame.

[00:17:33] The second part is often they give you an objection that isn't necessarily the true objection. It's merely the manifestation of the actual objection. I don't mean they're lying and if they are, that's a whole different issue. That's a trust issue.

[00:17:49] You're not even in the game at that point. Now I'm talking about when there's interest but they don't quite know exactly what the problem is, but there's something there. And I remember as salespeople, we know the process, we're in sales conversations every day. Right?

[00:18:09] So to us, all of that is natural but to them it might be the one time in their life or once a year or once every 10 years, you know whatever it's been going to follow up with so.

[00:18:18] So they don't know exactly what the problem is, they don't want to appear ignorant by asking along question. They don't want there are little defensive about it. They don't know exactly what the issue is but it's sort of like in the old Spider-Man cartoon.

[00:18:30] Remember yet, despite he's sense, he didn't know exactly what the problem was out there, but he could sense there was something. So in the prospect as that's, but they don't really know what the issue is,

[00:18:40] they just reflexively say something like it's too expensive or I got to think about it or I need to talk to my neighbors, cousins, whatever who once did something like this and bought something like this and those about or something else. Okay?

[00:19:00] So what happens is, if we're just answering the objection that was given, would they carefully re-hurse to response, we could be providing the perfect smoothest response to the wrong objection. Okay? And so what we want to do is we don't want to try to overcome the objection.

[00:19:22] What we want to do is instead work effectively within the actual objection, get to the root of the objection and then in partnership with our prospect, determine how to work through it in a way that serves them best.

[00:19:42] So let me see if I can, I want to unpack a little bit's pops and great stuff there. What I'm hearing you say is a lot of time the objection isn't objection. It may be an excuse and maybe something to buy some time,

[00:19:56] whatever it's not likely the objection that is there. In fact, you hear this all the time, right? Price or money or time or whatever is not really the objection. So I assume then what you want to then do is start asking questions

[00:20:11] and getting more data that determine the objection behind the objection, if you will. Or maybe the objection behind the objection multiple layers. Is it that unimpealing exercise that really ultimately gets you to that point? And it begins and I'm going to have Jeff handle this one.

[00:20:26] And that is, it begins with mastering ourselves. Jeff. You know, Bob has had the becoming objection proof process as something he's been teaching for a long time. He just it's never been put into a book format.

[00:20:42] And so when he reached out to me about us doing a book together, I said, oh, yes, very fast. We'll tell you that story at there's time later. But it basically his principle not only is it effective,

[00:20:54] but it also instead of creating a debate between you and a prospect, it actually builds a relationship and you come out of the whole objection closer with the prospect and they feel that as well.

[00:21:07] But basically it's a step by step process is of course number one controlling your own emotions because when you get an objection in sales, it sets up something out called a collusion point, which is basically the combination of how your body reacts with a negative emotion

[00:21:23] combining with logic. When your body gets, when your brain generates that negative emotion because you've got an objection, oh no, I've got to make a sale, I've got to do this. It's in the somatic marker down into your body, makes you feel uncomfortable. Everything gets kind of crazy.

[00:21:37] If you don't control your own emotions first, your response is going to be response is going to be reactions and you've started into a debate with your client. With your prospect, nobody's going to win that debate.

[00:21:50] I always say never try to overcome an objection, just like Bob said, because it's an objection like an opinion. And you don't need much further than our political world. No people don't like it when you argue with their opinion about anything.

[00:22:03] So the first thing is controlling your emotions, but then empathize. Let them know you consider their thought process valid. I can see how that would be something you would want to consider.

[00:22:14] Now don't agree with them, but at least let them know you hear them and that's in a valid effect. The fact they're thinking that is not a bad thing. But then ask questions just like you just said Tom, ask questions so that you can dig a little deeper

[00:22:32] because you want to understand their perspective. Because you can't help them see it differently if you don't really understand how they see it now. So when you ask questions to get their perspective and say, you know, do you mind sharing with me a little bit more?

[00:22:47] I would really want to make sure I understand what you're saying with that. It does two things. The moment it lets them know how much you value their opinion, but it also gets them thinking through the process.

[00:22:57] And once they've been able to kind of verbalize it more and go with that, then because you have given it validity and validity, you've given you empathize with them that this is an important thing.

[00:23:10] It's very easy to say, you know, I certainly understand how you feel about that. And you know, and I'm Mayor may not be the right fit for you because of that. I understand that.

[00:23:20] But if you don't mind, let me kind of shift your perspective just a little bit. Let me shift your frame and then you offer your solutions. What you'll find out is if because the two of you will be finding the solution for the other

[00:23:31] way, I can say not only does it make them comfortable moving forward. It creates what I call a fusion point, which is my branding on my sales training and all that. But it causes a fusion point and it makes them feel comfortable with you.

[00:23:44] It makes them feel a kinder and spirit with you. And they give you mental permission to shift their frame and to work through that object. Yeah, that's a good one. What I like about that is it's a process. It's a process. It's systematic.

[00:24:01] I mean, I heard you say empathize, clarify, ask some questions and in the process of that what you're really doing is establishing yourself as that trusted advisor. So we don't have to go fight for it.

[00:24:15] We just we earn it by the process that we we walk them through. And early early in my sales career probably later than it should have been because I'm a slow learner.

[00:24:26] But I would catch myself when there are objections or they were saying things I would catch myself going like like ready to respond. Very to respond and I was totally communicating to them.

[00:24:37] Shut up, I'm going to answer and solve that problem and I didn't realize for so long how much just that anticipated and anticipatory look. And it bottled up energy killed my sales success.

[00:24:50] I think when we start the sales, no, so those to do that, I know I get as well. You know, it's natural because you're so excited about what you're doing. You just know that you're going to help them. So what they want to just be quiet and listen.

[00:25:03] And you know, when we talk about human nature, that's not the way it works. Well, I think is Bob pointed out here, right? Cellars, obstacles often get the ejection sweats, you know, engage us. What I'm hearing you say those objections are opportunities.

[00:25:20] And if you take the mindset of the fact that they give you that, let use that as an opportunity to build a relationship. Not as, oh my god, you know, as somebody gets super anxious about it.

[00:25:30] No, the handle of your recklessly, it's actually absolutely, it can create as Jeff says a fusion point with that person. We're big believers too, that you answer of ejection. The best time to answer an objection is before it ever comes up.

[00:25:46] There are certain objections that are absolutely bait into your product or service. Okay? And these objections are going to come up every time.

[00:25:56] Now I know there are people who say, well, no, never bring up the objection that they don't bring up for, you know, you're putting that in there. No, it's already in their mind.

[00:26:04] And the most dangerous objection is the one that's never brought up in the first place by then, more by you. Okay? So if you bring up the objection first, it's a question that you can answer and provide information. Okay? If they bring up the objection, it's an objection.

[00:26:22] That's a totally different frame. And as Jeff and I talk about in Street Wise to sales wise, the frame is probably the most important element or among the most important elements because the frame is the foundation from which everything else evolves.

[00:26:42] So if you set the proper frame, you're 80% 90% of the way toward the results you want. On the other hand, if you buy into their negatively set frame, which is probably set unconsciously, they're not even thinking about it. And you buy into it, you're 80% to 90% the other way.

[00:27:00] So the best with an objection is when you bring it up first, all you're doing is now you're providing information. And that's the frame you want to be working from now you're an indicator.

[00:27:14] You know, that's a really interesting, you know, brand and this is even interesting and some of the stuff that we do with this company with the clients you work with it.

[00:27:22] This month is almost getting them to list out the potential objections that they're going to run into with their customers. And not only just use them in sales, but even in your marketing and your communications and your thought leaders.

[00:27:34] Just all of that can be headed off and make the objection your friend versus a, you know, the enemy. Well, if you handle it during the sales conversation itself, you talk about that point along with the solution.

[00:27:49] It's education. If they do it after the fact, it's an objection and you have to do the two things differently.

[00:27:55] Yeah, and to Tom's point, like we do work with our customers about bringing those as part of their three topics that we talk about for their social content and bringing in their humanity.

[00:28:09] Some of that is, hey, let's bring in those objections, especially when we're doing things like when you have a really good call, it's the you've recorded.

[00:28:17] And there's a conversation around the objections. We want those transcripts to use for creating articles, creating social content and getting it out there because we want to show and demonstrate hey we're not scared of the the objections.

[00:28:31] In fact, we want to have a conversation with you. And so we start those conversations by putting it into the social content. And what you've done, what you've done that and you've walked through that process. You've you've talked about those particular gestures you get commonly upfront.

[00:28:49] And then you have your sales conversation and they do bring up something else when you walk through the process that we teach in the book.

[00:28:56] When you finally get to the very end stage where you're asking isolating your own. Anything else it would be an issue that we need to deal with and they'll say no. It's very easy to walk them comfortably into doing business with you.

[00:29:08] You know, my favorite way to do that was always do you see any reason we wouldn't want to move forward at this point. They would say well no people love to say no to sales people I've made that my yes.

[00:29:19] That's really good. Well, I've got to address Chris done with his is a. Robert fanboy comment Chris Chris your behind Jeff in behind me so there's two of us already in line so you're third in line today.

[00:29:35] My friend Chris is a friend of mine on I'm linked it. We each other quite a while we're guy Chris is a great guy. Yeah, and I want to touch on just the only thing Anthony something's up here right as we talk.

[00:29:47] And injections are a good thing so it's shy away from them and get ahead of them if you see them prior and I think.

[00:29:55] Really spending time I think in a in a sales and marketing area understanding those objections and not being afraid of them and embracing them I mean there isn't a product or service in the world that doesn't have some.

[00:30:09] And it's been in our consideration built into the customer so you know if it was it would be too easy. Well, that's what well that's true and if it was too easy there if you know financial value in the sales.

[00:30:21] So no it's right that's very true to make a great point and especially about getting ahead of them short one and one of the best ways to do this is through your discovery and

[00:30:32] and japan I are big believers that the discovery element of the sales conversation is extremely important because this is where you will literally discover what they need What they want what they desire what problems or challenges they are having that they want to be helped with.

[00:30:55] What is going to move them closer to happiness and the more of a positive discovery you do the more intense of discovery if that you do the more you're going to be able to then add insights very specific to their situation that's going to.

[00:31:12] Maybe point out weaknesses they don't know they even have that you can help them to mitigate or identify opportunities they have that you can help them to leverage.

[00:31:22] So the better the the the effect we would say that before you even go connecting with the benefits of your product or service with their needs wants and desires you need to first know what those needs wants and desires are and you really need to know if you do this correctly not only do you.

[00:31:41] I didn't manage the number of objections that you will have okay by the time you ask them to take action by the time you ask for the order you're simply now asking them to act on something they've already told you. They want to do.

[00:31:59] You know if you ask the right questions and you know what their value proposition is and that's a value proposition though is one of those things that I say companies even though they're well intended some time to they'll miss the mark slightly because a value proposition as absolutely nothing to do with your product or your service has nothing to do with your company has nothing to do with how great the sales person isn't we know everybody who follows you guys are great.

[00:32:25] It has everything to do with how their life gets better if they become your client. So it's really their value from your proposition so when you ask questions during your discovery that's focused on that and you plan this out ahead of time.

[00:32:41] They will tell you everything that you wanted to tell them anyway, but you asked the questions so it came out of their mouth instead of yours which gives it so much more credibility in their eyes.

[00:32:53] So hey, I want to bring up the question or comment here from from Bob and I want to get you guys take on this. Bob is saying do not oversell though by digging up too many unmentioned objections only raise objections or relate to their specific needs and wants.

[00:33:12] What's your thought on that and is there a balance or is there a place where you go too far were you ended up kind of digging a ditch for yourself on this area? I think that's the point of the discovery.

[00:33:22] What's the reason you're going to be able to do this? I'm sorry. No, remember we're talking about bringing up the objections that are already baked in to your product or service. So no, you're not you're certainly not fishing for all sorts of objections to be brought up.

[00:33:38] These are only ones that you know either you're going to be asked or even more dangerously that you're not going to be asked but are on that person's mind. So we would go back to only bring up those objections that are baked in to your product or service.

[00:33:56] And Bob, what are we we talked to Jeff you talked about one with with the only with objections being empathetic and kind of clarify and then ask questions is my summary of it but I've also heard a lot of folks talk about using stories to answer objections.

[00:34:14] What are your thoughts on some of those different or best practices other than the one that you already shared Jeff? Yes, the mass history teller. The reason the stories are so important and every part of your process including if you're working through an objection is pretty simple.

[00:34:34] It's the way our brain works. You know one of the things that has just puzzled me and other sales leaders for decades is how you could take two different salespeople put them side by side. They look like they should both be very successful.

[00:34:48] One decides to go out and become successful the other one decides to quit. And so it's the process of how the brain works. I call that fusion pool.

[00:34:58] So I know we don't have a lot of time on here today, but basically when you do something what you've generated an emotion in the brain. Our body sends a somatic marker down and it changes the way we feel.

[00:35:09] We talked about an objection makes you have that negative feeling so your blood pressure can go up your breath gets slow. So when that combines with logic which is how any decision gets made it produces a negative reaction.

[00:35:22] But the other side of the equation works well if your brain generates a positive emotion. And then when the decision is getting made, the emotional part of the logical part communicate they produce the decision.

[00:35:34] When you do that, the somatic marker that happens inside them makes them feel comfortable saying yes they feel at ease. They feel part of what's going on so it makes them feel differently. And when you use stories in your sales process it does exactly the same thing.

[00:35:53] It generates a positive emotional response and they're brain either you're going to be a solution to a problem they know they have or you're going to be helping them with something They didn't even realize what's going to be so great.

[00:36:03] When it combines with the logic of the value proposition that you're bringing, then it creates a fusion point. And they move forward in the process. It's why I write parables. I can write the basic how to sales book. I've done that.

[00:36:19] But my favorite genre to do, this is a business parable. That's what street wise is. It's what all the books that I've written that I published are.

[00:36:28] And it's because it lynched the material and the readers mind in a better way for them to retain it and use it when they walk out rather than just normal note take.

[00:36:40] I know Jeff, I love that and I try to incorporate that and telling stories even with you know I learned it as word pictures and counseling when I realize I sucked at being married.

[00:36:51] And my wife and I went back to you know marriage counseling three months after we were married. You know if you have tried using those with our kids with each other. How are some of the best ways to incorporate story into handling objections?

[00:37:07] When you're handling an objection the way I would incorporate the stories again, you go through the process we talked about. But then when you're doing the reframe when you've you're getting the homework you're changing the frame and you're going to make your suggestion. Do it in story format.

[00:37:23] Tell what that solution is but then use your story along with your social proof till your prospect get the understanding through an actual real lot scenario about how this solved the issue and that's the point that you want to put that out.

[00:37:41] Where you're going to add to that. You know but I saw what is a point about the buyer will tell you why they will buy of the seller gives them space to do so in Jeff and we put this in the book.

[00:37:56] But like Jeff tell that great saying you have about that about the buyer will tell you what. So yeah.

[00:38:03] In a sales process the unfortunate truth that we all have to accept in sales is unless they already know you like you and trust you the fact that we are in sales doesn't automatically give us the most credibility in their mind.

[00:38:20] And so you can tell them all the great things about your product the great things about your service you could do everything right and everything you say be exactly correct and solve their needs.

[00:38:31] But it came out of your mouth thus it's suspect but if you ask the right questions.

[00:38:37] You can leave them through discussion and ask the right questions where they will say all those great things and then it comes out of their mouth instead of yours and so instead of it being suspect it's the gospel truth.

[00:38:51] I used to do that was in the employee benefits arena. I would ask the questions about the different things that they were doing but I would always ask this one question.

[00:39:00] A lot of companies these days make a difficult budget choice and they choose no longer to offer employee benefits or cut them back why do you still go to the expense and effort.

[00:39:10] And they will tell me well I'm trying to attract great employees I really want to take great care of my people I want to keep them here once again.

[00:39:16] I want to retrain new people they would go all through the things that every other salesperson in our industry was trying to tell them but they would tell me and then I would just look at them say you know what that is amazing.

[00:39:28] You just told there's some things you're trying to do that we can help you do and then I'll welcome for the solutions that we offer. They told themselves what they needed to hear instead of just telling them what they needed to hear. And that is.

[00:39:42] And you just set the table for them to do that is what you did absolutely. It was my job to find out what they needed help them get it.

[00:39:50] You sell people we're professional matchmakers guys we have on one hand we have a client or a prospect that has a legitimate need that we know we can help with. We have a company on the other side of our ourselves and if you're solving what.

[00:40:03] But a company on the other side of the equation that has the right solution and we make the match happen and we get we get compensated for making that happen. We're professional matchmakers is what it amounts to.

[00:40:16] So I have a question and this takes too long and we'll say that for another episode. But a lot of people write in sales one of the biggest challenges is getting that appointment or getting that initial conversation.

[00:40:32] It's there and obviously there's a lot of objections you know Brandon I know you hear this all the time about getting that first meeting I don't want to get out of meeting it sold. Or I'm going to get pressured I'm going to get all of those things.

[00:40:43] Is there a way to use some of this objection strategy earlier in the sales process to actually open the door to potentially get some. Potentially get some conversations it may not be sales meetings or pitches or whatever the building relationships and getting some initial conversations.

[00:41:02] Well what we what we teach in the book that this has been such a wonderful collaboration for Bob and I think as we take in a lot of Bob's sales training we've taken a lot of money we combine them and then did it in story format.

[00:41:14] But the concept I've briefly mentioned earlier about fusion points our goal is to create fusion points with anybody that we're talking to where there's a prospect or client or whatever.

[00:41:24] But what we do our thing that we do in Florida I actually teach a component of it that's how do you create fusion points before you even meet the client.

[00:41:35] And the truth is if you understand how the neurology of the brain works in making a decision it's really valuable information how because then you can actually.

[00:41:45] And if you work with the science instead of an opposition to it you can influence how that prospect you've never met makes the decision to give you the first meeting. You can influence how that same prospect then decides to become your client and your eventual personal walking ambassador.

[00:42:01] And if you're recruiting for a sales team if you're leading a team you can actually influence how that potential recruit makes the decision to come on board with you and then move forward and do have a great career and it's that is science about connecting the positive emotional responses with the logic that's how the decisions get made.

[00:42:19] And a prospect and concept you generally any any prospect is going to follow normally and one of three categories. You got the first category that they already know they have a need maybe they recognize your company name or your brand so when you make that contact.

[00:42:35] You're creating a fusion point for them they see a solution maybe there don't you wish they were all that way you get the importance they say yes everything's wonderful. But you got these other two groups one.

[00:42:47] The second group they consider an unexpected sales call an interruption to their date it creates a collision point to them a negative response combined with logic.

[00:42:57] And then you get a third group that they're really not thinking about you at all there's no emotional context there's no scientific there thinking about their day because you haven't given them a reason to think about you.

[00:43:11] So what we teach when we're doing that is we talk about three ways that you can create a fusion point with a prospect that you've never met number one is by getting an introduction from someone else that they already know like and trust.

[00:43:26] They may not know you but they love no like and trust that person and when they say you're a great person it helps it creates the fusion point.

[00:43:34] The second is in whatever marketing strategy you're using you want to create three positive emotional touches where you're providing value to that prospect before you ever ask for the first meeting.

[00:43:48] I got to take out of the term you use before I was we were in the green room about people that throw the pitch out there immediately.

[00:43:54] I wanted to do that provide value in it depends on your industry and your product you know I'll teach things like sending them positive press that you've seen about their company or about them individually.

[00:44:05] You might find something on social media that they love and you send that just a little research and over about a one week period you can actually touch them three times just doing that.

[00:44:14] Or you can send out a card to the things of that nature and then the third thing is that in the verbiage that you use.

[00:44:22] You want to make sure that you're really focused on their value proposition which is what I talked about are you want to focus on their value from your proposition. You don't want to focus on any other thing other than you want to help them achieve get that value.

[00:44:36] When I was in the business of business in employee benefit arena the administrative assistant people call them gatekeepers I call them keyholders because when I did what I did they help me get access to the kingdom.

[00:44:48] But the administrator I didn't talk about the company name and how great we were and I really wanted to meet the owner of the company.

[00:44:56] I said you know I don't know if we're going to be the right fit for your company, but if we are if you're missing word do that accident or nails or maybe you're caring for a seriously ill spouser child.

[00:45:08] We're actually providing money for you so that you don't lose your financial footing during that time and may not make anything to you and they would always say it does too and they would help me meet the other company because I was focused on their value from my proposition.

[00:45:24] You kind of dissolve the objection before they happen essentially through through the process. Great great things. Hey Bob I've got a question kind of a follow up to that is what role do you see?

[00:45:38] You know we already established we all have gray hair some of us more hair and less hair than others but how do you how do you see social and things tools like LinkedIn and content. Helping in this process.

[00:45:55] So it's really interesting because when social media really began to be a thing one of the questions because people know me for it and I first wrote this in my book and let's refer us back on the mid 90s and that was my basic quote was all things being equal people will do business with and refer business to those people they know like and just in other words the importance of building that.

[00:46:20] relationship and so when social media really began to be a thing people said well can we can people still build relationships without being face to face and I said you know it's interesting because when I first started in sales 40 years ago.

[00:46:35] We also used technology to create these relationships with a strange thing was called the yellow phone. And you know I was having I was building relationships with people and closing sales and doing all those things and receiving referrals all those things through a telephone okay and so.

[00:46:54] Social media in the internet. For by just so many wonderful opportunities to meet people we may never have otherwise had the opportunity to meet. The key is understanding that all things being equal people don't do business with and refer business to those social media platforms.

[00:47:15] They know like and trust it's the person in front of the computer. And that's one of the reason I love your service so much is because you allow that relationship you help facilitate that relationship to begin.

[00:47:29] Okay, but when we when everything we post or or you know I was going to say tweet I guess would be now excerpt whatever or put on LinkedIn or post or comment you know I like to say before everything you're about to do before you hit send simply ask yourself does this add value.

[00:47:48] To the people were the person we're going to see this right because that's still always what it's all about you know.

[00:47:56] What are the things I used to say what I spoke at sales conference as I began by saying nobody's going to buy from you because you have a quote to meet.

[00:48:05] Right they're not going to buy from you because he's money they're not going to buy from you just because you're a nice human being they're going to buy from you they're going to do business with you because.

[00:48:15] They believe that they will ultimately be better off by doing so than by not doing so. So when everything you do in building that relationship ask how are you adding value to now let me answer Bob's question for properties and here's where I diverge we can't provide value.

[00:48:35] We said value is defined by the client not the selling company. So here's what I'm going to do first I'm going to agree with him totally and tell him we don't diverge it off.

[00:48:47] Value is defined by me I guess but I'm sure by a lot of other people value is the relative word or desire ability of a thing of something to the end user.

[00:49:03] Or be holder in other words what is it about this thing this product service concept idea would have you that bring so much worth or value to them.

[00:49:15] That they will willingly exchange their money for another word what I'm saying and what I think Bob is saying is value is always in the eyes of the holder okay that's why that's why the discovery so very important because as human beings we all come from our own.

[00:49:32] Instead of beliefs we value different things differently okay according to ourselves but as human beings we tend to believe that everybody sees the world.

[00:49:45] Basically the same way we see the world but they don't though the biggest mistake a sales person can ever make is believing that they're providing value to someone because they would find it to be a value.

[00:50:01] When it's not necessarily true that the other person would be so yes we do I believe we can provide great value to others but first we have to know what it is they value. I think that brings us sorry Bob.

[00:50:21] I think you answer what we talked about at the beginning and we framed it under the answering objections.

[00:50:32] We're addressing objections but it's still that same process of empathize, gain some clarity ask questions and then you can align yourself where you're not diverging from them but you're very much aligned with them.

[00:50:46] That's part of the value you bring to the table. The value that makes a customer choose you in a crowded market when other people are offering the same thing.

[00:50:55] Isn't always anything to about your company it's the things that you bring to the table that are above and beyond the transaction.

[00:51:03] That's where I've become such a big believer around social and the opportunity of it as a medium to get a lot of that communication out there in a established or lay foundation for being known like and trusted before they ever even meet us.

[00:51:18] But remember if you can't distinguish yourself okay if that perspective customer client doesn't see anything different about you then they do in anyone else it's always going to come down to who has the lowest price.

[00:51:32] When you sell on high value you're a resource. So it's all those things you do that outside the intrinsic value of your product or service right it's all the elements of value that you provide a Japanese Ier big fans of a guy named Richard Wildman he wrote a book called 100 proven ways to acquire any clients for like absolutely brilliant.

[00:52:00] And what he has and he's you know basically his is client list is like the Fortune 100 company right so you know.

[00:52:09] And the way he has been able to and utilize an empathy utilizing genuine care he's he's figured out how to and he's documented here how to provide super answers to people so that they feel some without themselves and of course when they feel good about themselves they feel good about you and they feel good about the situation.

[00:52:33] And it's those things we can do that bring value to people again over and above the intrinsic value of your your product or service and again I think your service really allows people to do that because they allow them to bring themselves to the table in a way that often is difficult to do.

[00:52:52] Yeah, appreciate that summary of it and before we go to one of the Jeff and Bob let everyone know about where they can find information about sales wise live and all that but we got through a loose comment up there Tom best advice he's gotten all summer is from Jeff so Jeff you got your fan boys here as well besides Bobby and your fan boy I know you got you got Luke in there.

[00:53:15] Thank you. Yes, and you know at the last sales wise live conference. You know people said they came because they kind of knew about you know the go giver and they want to see and so forth and they came away with information from Jeff on how to build their business that was just you know exceptional.

[00:53:33] The sky is really good. There's a reason why he let thousands of thousands of thousands of people in a 42500 company that you know is very well known and he set records and you know that that doesn't happen by chance.

[00:53:48] Okay, audience and once you would have would pause for second. Did you realize how Bob just sold with the story. Yeah. And he's in referral about Jeff like he just demonstrated for us everything that we need to know. Now they can know me like.

[00:54:04] I have a bunch of objections but we'll handle those later. You know you mentioned the event of Lord we do an event of Lord.

[00:54:15] The next one's coming up in September. It's called sales wise live and it's Bob myself and our partner Kim Angelie and it's a two day game changer because it's not the thing where you know they get to see people who write books and speak about sales up on a stage.

[00:54:32] We're in the mix the entire time from we've treated them to dinner on Sunday night and then we teach solid Monday and Tuesday.

[00:54:39] We get in the crowd we get in there and we equip them with what we do and we do it at the most remarkable place in West Palm Beach Florida called the bed.

[00:54:49] It is just an experience all in of itself Bob I'll let you finish up on that and it's just a wonderful event.

[00:54:56] Yeah and we actually have Richard Wildman who's going to be you know again one of our heroes and this was kind of a story in itself only because Richard is so booked all over the world.

[00:55:06] I think he has something like five days open in August where he's not speaking somewhere over the world and we were able to get him for this date in September and it was like you know we're really cool about it when we're talking to him then you know we get off a thing and Jeff and Kim and I are going.

[00:55:19] Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. So where can where can people go for learning about sales wise live and then where's the best place for them to find your book and lastly where's the best place for them to connect with either or both of you if somebody is interested.

[00:55:40] So I'll go ahead Bob.

[00:55:42] You know I was just going to say I put in the private chat because I'm not sure I can put it in the main one so I put in the private chat the sales wise live dot com link you want to put it up there.

[00:55:55] Yeah, we'll put it in the notes as well.

[00:55:57] I've got I bet Chris is still on there Chris could you grab that say or add sales wise live dot com into the comments that'd be great and and we'll put it in the show notes so it's on the podcast we'll add it on the YouTube channel as well so everybody can find it but that sales wise live dot com.

[00:56:16] And then Jeff at his site Jeff C West dot com he does a thing about three or four times a week where he talks about his brilliant fusion points and how to utilize that and building your sales career and as a leader how to use those fusion points in order to encourage and help those you feed.

[00:56:35] Then at my site bird the urg dot com I have a daily impact email that I sent out every morning people would like to have it with my coffee every day. There you go.

[00:56:50] Well gentlemen this has been I have high expectations for today and I mean for me there's the use of past them those fusion points. The process of overcoming objections adding in story Bob Devon straightening how to add the story in there at the end.

[00:57:07] This was excellent for me Tom what do you think? Yeah totally agree I think we need to get you guys back for another on core presentation that I have just barely scratched the list of questions that we wanted to do today so.

[00:57:20] Maybe we get you guys back like a month before your next quarter sales wise because I can't attend this quarter I promise my daughter would be at Disney during that time and I think if I said I'm going to go down the street for a few days I get in.

[00:57:35] And she's already working she's 11 and she sells she sells really well very naturally but maybe a month before the next one we could bring you in and I'm hoping I can keep it on my calendar to attend next quarter.

[00:57:53] Telling your daughter she comes to the event instead of going to Disney World. Next year you'll be taking her to Europe. She's a company that instead of you brand and you can go. I like that idea actually. Yeah.

[00:58:08] Sarah that goes let us know how that goes brand it. Alright if I send Zoe to there Zoe would have a multi-million dollar company in six months and then she could take me to Europe. That's the point.

[00:58:23] Alright well thanks again Jeff and Bob could luck with the show and the upcoming sales wise live you. I'm going to see Brandon maybe I can work my way down there the next one as well so there you go that would be great.

[00:58:34] And thanks for all the comments some great comments today so thank you everybody who participated and Brandon do you want to take us home. I mean I'm not Carson but yeah everybody everybody thank you so much for joining us for another awesome episode of Mastering Modern Selling.

[00:58:50] We will see you next week same time same place or podcast 24 hours a day and until next time. Thank you for joining us today on Mastering Modern Selling.

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