MMS #89 - Leading Change in an Era of AI: Empowering Sellers with Bill Kirst

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[00:00:50] Everyone welcome to episode number 89, Mastering Modern Selling and you're probably going who are

[00:00:57] these people? Where's Brandon? Where's Carson? So let me fill in the blanks here. I'm Tom.

[00:01:05] Brandon will be here momentarily. He's sitting on the tarmac at Atlanta airport so I would suspect that

[00:01:11] we'll see him in 15-20 minutes or so. Kristy who you were mayor, is it was your third and a half time?

[00:01:17] I think my third and a half time yeah. Is filling in for Carson this week who is

[00:01:21] in the Caribbean on a cruise and making us all jealous on LinkedIn. And we have another

[00:01:27] great guest today Bill Kirst. Bill welcome. Thank you appreciate being here Tom and great to meet

[00:01:32] you Kristy. Long time listener, first time caller so to speak. I love it. Yeah so Bill why don't we're

[00:01:40] going to talk about AI and really AI and sales and sales enablement and a lot of I think

[00:01:48] practical aspects of using AI with sales. We have a lot to talk about so let's start off if

[00:01:55] you can tell us a little bit about your background what you do and kind of how you

[00:01:59] got into this whole AI thing. Sure yeah I appreciate that Tom. So my background is kind

[00:02:05] of interesting and a lot of people here may be a little surprised to hear. I'm an expert in change

[00:02:10] management. I focus on the people side of change and I've been doing that for over two decades

[00:02:16] and what's really interesting you know Tom you and I were talking pre-show about this.

[00:02:20] If I step back and think about most of my career, the people I've partnered with the most

[00:02:26] in all of my career of sort of delivering change, selling change, supporting organizations through

[00:02:31] change are sellers ironically and people might be surprised by that because they'd say okay well

[00:02:37] if you focus on the human side, the people side of change most of it's probably around

[00:02:42] HR stuff. Not necessarily I mean most of what's driven our change over the past two decades

[00:02:47] has been technology specific and if you fast forward to where we're at today AI is the

[00:02:54] topic du jour. What once was if we all can remember and you know hopefully some folks that

[00:03:00] listen to this will remember when the World Wide Web came out it completely altered the way

[00:03:05] that people do business and a lot of people were thinking well how am I going to integrate

[00:03:09] this into my life and so the people that usually show up to help you with that are

[00:03:14] change management experts. So I had about two decades of experience in consulting,

[00:03:19] worked at places like Baring Point and IBM, went to work for the University of Washington for a

[00:03:26] while. I actually led their first cloud implementation to Workday so they were moving

[00:03:30] all of their systems from a 35 year old payroll system which was green screen blinking cursor

[00:03:37] to their first cloud instance and I led that change then went back to consulting for about

[00:03:42] six years started to change management practice for a company called West Monroe was the first

[00:03:49] person to lead that practice in Seattle and then Microsoft called me. They actually heard my podcast

[00:03:55] which I've been running a podcast for about eight years called Coffee and Change where I

[00:04:00] interview people just like this and ask them how they've led change in their life and

[00:04:05] their work and in the world. They heard that podcast and said hey can you come do what you

[00:04:09] do for us and focus on customer zero, focus on helping our sellers get into a consultative mindset

[00:04:17] and also help us focus on career tracks and career paths for people and I said it's not every

[00:04:22] day you get a call from Microsoft so I said yes. What's interesting is I had already been

[00:04:27] following Carson Hetty and all of his work prior to that. I was a fan boy for a long time

[00:04:32] and then I realized oh wow I get to work with Carson and many others so while I was

[00:04:36] at Microsoft I was a director of change for commercial systems and business intelligence.

[00:04:41] Long title basically means anytime there was a change to something inside a system that

[00:04:47] Microsoft employees used, a process, a policy they would come to my team and say help us

[00:04:52] make this work so I got some really amazing exposure to how the entire Microsoft stack

[00:04:58] works as well as rolled out some impressive tools and AI tools for 60,000 sellers across

[00:05:03] the Microsoft ecosystem and just last year in August I joined Adobe and I'm doing a lot of

[00:05:10] the same stuff for Adobe leading a lot of change focused on the AI aspects of our day-to-day lives

[00:05:18] so that's how I got here today and then separate from that I was also in the army for 12 years.

[00:05:24] I was a captain in the signal corps so I was a cyber security battle captain technically

[00:05:29] and an aide to camp to three different generals so I've had a couple lifetimes.

[00:05:33] Wow, you don't look that old.

[00:05:36] Lots of sleep and lots of water.

[00:05:40] Kristy, we talked a lot last week when you were on the show about how you're working with

[00:05:45] people and helping them find jobs and find the right job and the right opportunity.

[00:05:50] Have you seen a lot of concern or what do you see as it relates to

[00:05:56] when you talk to salespeople about AI and the change if you want to call it that with AI?

[00:06:02] A lot of concern, a lot of you know are they leaning into it or are they trying to run away

[00:06:07] from it? Yeah good question. So with the people that I'm interviewing for clients,

[00:06:14] they're talking about using it as you know as an efficiency tool but when you snoop around

[00:06:19] LinkedIn there's definitely a lot of fear and uncertainty around which sales jobs might be

[00:06:27] automated and disappear and which ones might have legs and I think as a result of that there are

[00:06:33] a lot of sellers who are looking to level up. I guess I'll use that term because you know I

[00:06:40] think we all think that perhaps the SDR role might be able to be you know moved over to an

[00:06:45] automated state with AI, a lot of the efficiency type things and again I'm pro-efficiency for

[00:06:52] sure and I'm just kind of sitting back in fairness I don't really have I'm not really

[00:06:56] voting yet. I'm kind of sitting back to see but what I do like that I'm hearing on social about

[00:07:01] this topic is hey if you know you're gonna be replaceable if you're not at the top 10 percent

[00:07:08] which Tom you know I spend a lot of time talking about the top 10 percenters and how

[00:07:11] they're separating themselves out and I think this is one of those things where hey if

[00:07:14] you're hitting 60 or 70 percent of quota and you know and they think you can replace it you

[00:07:19] know with you know AI, I think that's one thing and then the other thing I would throw

[00:07:24] out and then I've got a question for Bill as well is as someone who consults for SAS B2B companies

[00:07:31] I think everybody better be heads up that as we continue to use AI as an efficiency tool more

[00:07:38] and more that that's possible right like if you have 150 of this type of employee today

[00:07:44] you may only need 70 of this employee tomorrow and if you're selling B2B licenses as opposed

[00:07:51] to a solution if you're still doing a seat license if you will you're going to be in big trouble

[00:07:56] because all of a sudden they're going to need half as many licenses as they did and now what

[00:08:01] does that do to your revenue so Bill my question for you would be again I was curious

[00:08:07] about the change management too and because apathy is the number one reason why people

[00:08:12] don't buy and I spend a lot of time even talking to sales teams and sales leaders about

[00:08:17] how are you helping them reduce the risk into it where change management comes in right like

[00:08:24] I see very few companies providing I just call them change management packets right like in

[00:08:30] saying like hey you know we're going to switch the vendor or we're going to bring in something

[00:08:34] new for the very first time you've got to train everybody like you know I'm like I think the

[00:08:38] best companies are giving them email templates that say hey this is what's happening this is

[00:08:41] what's coming but tell me about your thoughts on apathy the connection between not purchasing

[00:08:48] due to apathy and change management yeah well I'll start off by saying you know kind of the

[00:08:54] counter to apathy is empathy and that's actually my greatest skill set if you think about

[00:08:59] you know you've taken those strength finders and those those tests a lot of times we sort

[00:09:03] of anchor in what is our key skill and and I've always indexed number one on empathy

[00:09:10] and for me the best part of that is exactly what you're saying which is standing in the

[00:09:14] shoes of those that I'm trying to support those that I'm trying to help grow get better win

[00:09:18] whatever the objective is and and for me I think apathy and sort of inertia is one of your

[00:09:26] biggest risks in an organization currently I will also say on top of that is people feel

[00:09:33] overwhelmed right the volume of stuff coming at them the decisions being asked of them to make

[00:09:39] in shorter time periods you know do more with less less headcount more responsibilities these are

[00:09:46] these are a lot of pressure points for a lot of leaders and managers and and one one thing I

[00:09:53] notice because I get to interact with all these leaders and support them is they're lonely

[00:09:57] they're they're truly lonely in this and they feel like hey if I could get some support

[00:10:01] and get some help and sometimes that support as you said Christy looks like I'm going to listen

[00:10:07] to you and understand what your challenges and problems are and I'm actually going to rather

[00:10:11] than just throw a solution at you right I'm not just going to throw a tool at you I'm actually

[00:10:15] going to understand how you work what you're trying to achieve and accomplish under the

[00:10:19] constraints of the environment that you're in and I'm going to make a recommendation that

[00:10:23] suits you so I'm going to try and stand in the shoes your shoes and guide you through it

[00:10:27] I used to call it when I worked at IBM I used to call it at the elbow meaning I would

[00:10:31] work with a lot of leaders and executives and they didn't like when you stood behind them

[00:10:37] right imagine we're all trying to learn a new tool if I stand behind you and I look at your

[00:10:41] screen it makes you nervous right your certain expenses go up don't so I would actually go

[00:10:45] off to the side and sort of stand at the elbow so you're not directly behind them they

[00:10:50] could still see you in their peripheral vision and this seems simple but it's it's pretty

[00:10:54] profound where they feel like you're supporting them um and and you're not in their space

[00:11:00] and I think a lot of times that analogy is very true with what we're doing with tools

[00:11:05] systems technology and I like to do my best to sort of show up to meet people

[00:11:11] where they need the support and in the absence of good communications and the absence of empathy

[00:11:18] and the absence of curiosity you get a lot of people who just stop trusting they stop

[00:11:24] trusting what's happening in the organization they stop trusting the selling cycles they stop

[00:11:29] understanding who their customers are and that gap becomes bigger and bigger and bigger so

[00:11:33] throwing new things at it digital will not shorten that gap what shortens that gap is

[00:11:38] relationships so what I'm hearing you say and I want to bring up this question from Bob or

[00:11:43] this actually comment from Bob on the comment here in a minute what I'm hearing you say

[00:11:48] Bill is that change as much as anything else is that giving the hug I guess and the care

[00:11:56] and feeding to help people through that process yeah so it's not so much like here's the training

[00:12:02] here's how you use the software here's the manual or here's a video or whatever the case may be

[00:12:07] it's somebody feeling like they have that that guidance and that support along the way which is

[00:12:14] really interesting I think yeah and and it's not um it's not always our first go-to right

[00:12:20] I know a lot of times especially in technology or even in sales depending on the environment

[00:12:25] you're in we sometimes feel like oh I can't I can't show up that way I can't ask an open-ended

[00:12:31] question because if I ask an open-ended question they're going to think I know less than I should

[00:12:36] know and they're not going to buy from me and I've listened to many episodes that you all have

[00:12:41] done and we've we've had discussions Carson and I have had discussions around this

[00:12:46] that sort of open-ended question allows for inquiry curiosity relationship building and you

[00:12:53] can wander into a potential solution as opposed to say oh I listened to one third of what you said

[00:13:00] and you need this right and then what ends up happening is they buy this and they expect it to

[00:13:05] do that and it doesn't and then you're starting all over again and you're now on the bottom of

[00:13:10] their list of who to call whereas if you'd spend a little bit of time with them to really

[00:13:15] understand and sort of give them for lack of a better term a a mental hug and kind of get

[00:13:21] to know them they will remember you they'll be like hey you know what Tom made me feel great

[00:13:25] I know we didn't necessarily arrive at that point where we signed a proposal that day but

[00:13:30] I really liked how Tom made me feel so I'm going to call Tom when the opportunity comes up

[00:13:35] and then I'm going to call Christy and say I want to work with you both for these reasons

[00:13:40] and then you don't have to spend so much time with the chase yeah and and what I'm again

[00:13:47] hearing you say is by if they believe that again if you're a vendor or a seller if they believe that

[00:13:55] you actually do have empathy and do and it certainly then justifies consultative selling

[00:14:00] but it's not just consultative selling like hey I did a discovery call and I think you need this

[00:14:04] it's actually caring about what they're going to going to go through in that organization which

[00:14:08] is a little bit of a different thing than just the technology part of it I want to hit a

[00:14:13] couple of these comments here because um and Brandon says he's walking off the plane but he's

[00:14:20] so um and and Christy I don't know are you getting attacked because we all of a sudden

[00:14:24] hear more Zikaid is all of a sudden so are you do no no I'm safe I'm safe I'm in a screened

[00:14:30] important so Bob Bob brought up a question here he said change management again you

[00:14:36] know you do a lot with sales organizations right change management is often driven more by

[00:14:41] the churn and the sales leadership hey a new CRO a new CMO a new whatever new leader change

[00:14:47] what's your take on that on that aspect of it is the change of the people and the personnel

[00:14:52] and the management yeah I think Bob is right um a lot of times we say to ourselves what

[00:14:57] is the event that triggers the need to manage the change and what I would encourage people

[00:15:02] to think about differently is don't wait for that oh it's too late event or don't wait for

[00:15:08] that somehow we have to play catch up because we have a new leader or there's a risk issue or

[00:15:13] there might even be a crisis I mean think about all the organizations that have cyber security

[00:15:18] events that take place because they had to react right because it was too late when I

[00:15:23] think about managing change and guiding change and leading change I believe personally I've

[00:15:28] 25 years of experience to say this it really behooves you to invest in it in such a way

[00:15:34] so that those things that Bob is talking about those natural occurrences those continuity things

[00:15:39] they just become part of your rhythm and it's not so brittle the organization's not so brittle

[00:15:45] when it happens if there's a new CRO or a new piece of technology comes in you really want

[00:15:51] to get it so that your workforce is adept at this right it's kind of like going to physical

[00:15:56] therapy the analogy I often give people when they say what do you do I'm a doctor for

[00:16:00] businesses and many times it's like going to physical therapy if you come and you do your

[00:16:06] stretches and you do your exercises it's going to get easier but if you tell your physical

[00:16:11] therapist yeah I'm doing my stretches I'm good and then you show up and they go to stretch you

[00:16:15] it's going to hurt and I think organizations are no different we are just a collection of

[00:16:20] humans we have to remember that right business the word is busyness and we are a collection

[00:16:25] of humans as an organization so it just gets more complex when you don't build that muscle

[00:16:31] for change which is why I'm excited I've gotten to work at the places I've worked because

[00:16:35] they've invested in that muscle and that core capacity it's also why I love partnering with

[00:16:44] sellers because let's be clear they pay my bills right oftentimes Bob you know this and

[00:16:50] others know this it is change management is considered overhead and it is an internal

[00:16:57] investment the so if you're successful as sellers then I'm happy because that pays my bills that

[00:17:03] keeps me gainfully employed which is why it's very very key to meet the sellers right away

[00:17:09] it's kind of like in the army the first thing you do is you meet the person that pays your

[00:17:12] bill does your pay and who gives you the food you become friends with those two people

[00:17:18] it's not right away here bill I've got a follow-up question for you yeah so uh I'm going to go ahead

[00:17:25] and put some words in your mouth so empathy is your superpower your universal superpower

[00:17:30] and I teach how to find your sales superpower so I have created this little five step model

[00:17:36] I'll run through it real quickly with you and then I'm my question so you have to identify it

[00:17:40] right then you have to develop it and develop it happens naturally

[00:17:44] any something happens when you are using it like you said using the muscle regularly and then it

[00:17:49] just is going to get a little bit better but then the next step is to hone it and hone it

[00:17:53] is an intentional step right yeah honing it honing something is intentionally working on doing it

[00:17:58] and then you have to pressure test it and then you have to um you know put it into play

[00:18:02] in the right circumstances but let's go to the honing for a minute so assuming that so

[00:18:06] how did you how did empathy become your superpower and how did you hone it

[00:18:10] yeah I think empathy became my superpower because um I'm one of six kids I was raised in a family of

[00:18:17] six children my mom was the oldest of ten I always had um people around me and community

[00:18:23] around me and I had to take care of three younger siblings when I was growing up and just

[00:18:29] due to life circumstances you you start to care about other people in your in your in your stead

[00:18:36] if you will in your care and early on I started to realize that it helped not only those I cared

[00:18:44] about but it helped me it helped me sleep better it helped me feel more at peace which

[00:18:48] allowed me to then show up to whatever challenge or problem arose the next day more um with a

[00:18:54] sense of peace of mind and a sense of belief that I could help fast forward a little bit I

[00:18:58] lived all over the world you can see behind me there's the very famous checkpoint Charlie

[00:19:03] sign the reason that's there is because I lived in Eastern Europe for about eight years behind

[00:19:08] the Iron Curtain growing up and over the course of my my life I've had the opportunity to learn

[00:19:12] six or seven languages and to me language and words they matter because you know words words

[00:19:20] make worlds and the the investment for me of learning other language allowed me to get closer

[00:19:25] to your point hone in on understanding what people were experiencing and learning other

[00:19:31] languages gave me more opportunities to understand the sensations the worries the hopes the dreams

[00:19:37] of other people and it just sort of expanded my portfolio of things like curiosity and wonder

[00:19:43] and it also gave me the opportunity to realize that if the words I'm using are not effective

[00:19:49] then go back and find another word you know I'll hat tip to a gentleman who's in

[00:19:55] the comments Donald Van Dyke there's a book right over here on my desk he gave me for

[00:19:59] a gift it's an etymology dictionary I'm obsessed with the root origin of words why because over

[00:20:06] years and years and years we've forgotten the true origin of the words we use they get

[00:20:11] mishmashed and they get you know co-opted and a lot of times I will pause and tell people

[00:20:18] do you mean what you're saying so if you don't and a lot of times we're just going

[00:20:23] fast and we say things this is where AI gets really interesting we'll talk about this in a

[00:20:26] minute but go back to the origins of the words you're using and it's amazing how people are

[00:20:30] like you're right I didn't actually mean that I think I meant this great we all have the

[00:20:35] opportunity welcome Brandon we all have the opportunity to pause and revisit what we're

[00:20:41] trying to say to get to the outcome we want and that's where it gets really interesting

[00:20:45] with all the technology that we'll talk about here shortly yeah and I want to definitely

[00:20:50] hey Brandon everybody sorry I'm late I've been listening I've just been sitting on the

[00:20:54] plane waiting to get off are you sponsored by Delta I like the little look at that as soon

[00:20:59] as I turned on I was like look at that maybe we'll get a sponsorship out of this

[00:21:04] Bob isn't Bob isn't happy about that so yeah I want to get I want to get into your

[00:21:10] specifics Bill of what you did specifically with Microsoft when you were rolling out

[00:21:15] sales code pilot but I want to hit you mentioned Donald I want to kind of hit his

[00:21:18] question maybe as a as a lead into this sure and change management has always been

[00:21:24] finding how to truly begin with the person right figuring out how to get that hug how do you

[00:21:28] believe AI is going to affect the ability to begin with the person and I think that would

[00:21:34] be a good tie when you started to talk about what you did with Microsoft and the and the

[00:21:38] copilot piece yeah absolutely and I'd love to hear your response to this Christy because

[00:21:42] your questions have really you know got me thinking about that about that aspect of honing

[00:21:47] these skills right but yeah let me let me just kind of set the scene for folks so when

[00:21:51] I was at Microsoft in that role as director of change for commercial systems and business

[00:21:55] intelligence we were rolling out the early tenants of what now the world knows as copilot

[00:22:01] specifically sales copilot at the time it was actually called something a little different we

[00:22:06] called it viva sales so many of you who use Microsoft teams and know the viva suite it was

[00:22:12] attached to that and if you can imagine it was sort of these early stages of hey

[00:22:17] what are some things we could do that would give time back to sellers and what's interesting

[00:22:22] and I pulled up some stats to look at here we learned that just recently they've refreshed

[00:22:28] these stats but 79 percent of sellers around the world say that they they could use more

[00:22:34] time freed up for them to spend on account development and relationship building and what

[00:22:41] was even scarier was today sellers spend 70 percent of their time on administrative tasks

[00:22:49] so those things are like research planning keying in data to different systems developing

[00:22:55] proposals developing drafts reviewing internal meetings getting approvals so if you do the

[00:23:00] math that's nearly 30 hours a week that they're spending doing that and that leaves

[00:23:06] basically I don't know less than eight hours to go meet with a customer that's problematic and

[00:23:13] at Microsoft they said how do we flip that how do we take all of those aspects and start

[00:23:17] to automate them put some of the AI engine in there so that when Christy sends me an email

[00:23:23] I can literally hit a button that syncs between the email and my CRM and updates

[00:23:28] all our contact information I don't have to worry about doing that or more importantly

[00:23:32] when Brandon sends me a note and says hey I've got this opportunity with Delta

[00:23:36] I can go sync things based on what is existing in our CRMs have we done any previous business

[00:23:42] with them who's the last person that talked to them right these are all things that take a lot

[00:23:46] of time to find out it's like putting a huge thousand piece puzzle together and we started

[00:23:51] to realize with VivaSales now sales co-pilot what if we just use the power of AI to do all

[00:23:56] that work so that we could free up sellers to go spend time with the people they want

[00:24:00] to spend time with to go ideate to go brainstorm and over that process it was really fascinating

[00:24:06] because I think at the time these calls were typically engineers product owners developers

[00:24:12] and then I would be the change a single change management person on those calls

[00:24:16] these were global calls and it was fascinating because oftentimes I would ask a question

[00:24:21] that the whole group would say we didn't think of that at all and it made the product better

[00:24:28] where I actually worked very closely with Carson was developing testimonials I worked

[00:24:34] with sellers I said yes go work on the product but I'm going to spend time with the sellers

[00:24:38] I'm going to understand what their day in the life is I'm going to understand from them hey

[00:24:41] how would this tool help you and Carson became one of my my stars one of my showcase

[00:24:46] people because I did a testimonial with him video captured his sentiments and then he became

[00:24:52] sort of the voice of the campaign I was putting together so that people would adopt this

[00:24:56] tool and I was really excited that it finally got rolled out to 60,000 sellers across Microsoft

[00:25:02] and that product in its infancy has now emerged to what is sales copilot that the world is

[00:25:07] starting to use and those percentages of time that I mentioned before are are getting sellers

[00:25:13] are getting that back to spend time with not only their customers their accounts but I would

[00:25:18] say more importantly spend time with your families spend time with your kids like if

[00:25:22] you can get all of that time back and it can be done for you you don't have to spend time in

[00:25:27] an airport lounge keying in 90 things before you get on a plane right that's our life we know that

[00:25:32] we've done that I'd like to work on things that free that up so that you can spend time

[00:25:37] with your loved ones so related to that and this kind of touches on Bob's cross or comment

[00:25:43] here he says the assumption is that they'll use that time for their family or their kids

[00:25:48] but to prove that they will question number one question number two bill related to that is

[00:25:54] does that need to be part of the change management process is that when people are

[00:25:58] changing and I have free time yeah what the hell do I do with that right yeah it's actually

[00:26:03] okay that I spend more time with my family or whatever or that management doesn't just fill

[00:26:08] that time up with a different task yes I mean that's probably more likely yeah now we're

[00:26:13] going to give you something else to do but we're still not being more productive

[00:26:17] yeah absolutely and I'll finish this point and then I'd love Kristy for you to share your

[00:26:21] thoughts here because as we're building upon it I can see the light bulbs going up and

[00:26:25] over behind the cicadas that being what's really interesting is this is impacting people's

[00:26:32] livelihoods and what I mean by that is we've all spent and many people have been successful

[00:26:37] in their careers because they've become they've become corporate heroes they're the heroes at

[00:26:41] doing all that swiveling and keying and doing things and making this incredible amount of work

[00:26:47] somehow appear seamless and what happens to your point Brandon when all of a sudden it

[00:26:53] maybe used to take you six hours a week to do a spreadsheet that now can be done in a

[00:26:58] matter of seconds and sent off to someone else what do you do with that six hours

[00:27:03] even more important how do you have the conversation with your manager to say hey

[00:27:06] Brandon I now have all this extra time can we go revisit that list of things we've always

[00:27:11] wanted to achieve the innovation list the the to-dos that we never get to can we start on that

[00:27:17] I would I would pose the question that is the manager ready to have that conversation

[00:27:21] that's the part where I find really spending an interesting amount of time Kristy I'd love

[00:27:25] your thoughts as we talk about this yeah I've got several one is a follow-up to something

[00:27:30] we already mentioned is if we give the sellers back that much time do we now need fewer sellers

[00:27:35] right so like that's where I think the sphere factor comes in with sales professionals is

[00:27:41] sure if you if we add all this efficiency then again I don't they don't need 20 of me they maybe

[00:27:46] only need 12 of me so I think that's causing some of that fear I've always I've said for a

[00:27:51] long long time because I'm a big CRM junkie but I also will throw the sales leaders into this

[00:27:56] mix yes which is I've always said like I should be able to manage 70 to 75 percent of

[00:28:03] my team the pipeline if you will through technology right I shouldn't have to go and

[00:28:09] if I'm doing a one-on-one or pipeline review I should already I mean again like everything

[00:28:13] should be I should be you know triggers should be set information should be pushed to me I

[00:28:18] shouldn't have to go track a seller down and go tell me what's going on with this account

[00:28:21] right like it's all there for the taking and now you've got things like gong now you've

[00:28:25] got all of that type of thing so for me also the efficiencies of of the automation that's

[00:28:30] brought to the table the software for the for the leaders so that by the way personally

[00:28:35] I'd like to see them use that time to coach as opposed to manage right so again I get crabby

[00:28:41] about this like four hats that people wear in the sales leadership world leadership which is

[00:28:45] different than management which is different than coaching which is different than mentoring

[00:28:48] and I don't think we're doing anywhere near it so I would like to say if you're going to be

[00:28:51] able to free up that kind of time again you got little administrative tasks for the sellers

[00:28:56] then why don't we spend that time teaching the art of sales which the guys know I'm

[00:29:00] already on my I've been on my soapbox on for a while let's go back to teaching true

[00:29:04] sales skills let's go back to the art of sales now you've got time what where should you spend

[00:29:09] it bill with people with the people right trying to help improve the people so I think

[00:29:15] and then the other thing I would say is so many sales professionals that I interview

[00:29:20] are not getting professional sales training whether that be no matter what however you

[00:29:24] wanted to find that but for professional development professional sales training

[00:29:28] I think AI can be very beneficial so you know my follow-up question that when they say

[00:29:33] I've not had any formal sales training is so great what have you done for yourself

[00:29:37] how have you helped yourself and I think that's where a lot of AI can come in

[00:29:40] you know again if you've got if your company has invested in some of those tools like a gong

[00:29:44] things like that well you should be self-coaching right or you should be listening to podcasts you

[00:29:50] should be going out and you know and aggregating and saying where can I get information about this

[00:29:55] type thing there's so many places out there so I don't know that everybody

[00:29:58] I feel like a lot of times um I I get a newsletter every morning from a guy

[00:30:02] and he is really good about giving us AI prompts he's like hey I was looking for this and I used

[00:30:07] this prompt and it worked really well and here's how I you know I refined it down to this and

[00:30:10] I thought if I would benefit from it you would too I don't feel like there's enough of that

[00:30:14] collaboration going on out in the world either AI still think it's a little bit scary for

[00:30:17] people and they don't know you know like what is the right some people don't even know

[00:30:21] what a prompt is right truly yeah I think I think to your point also that was asked about

[00:30:28] the creativity piece I think Bob asked that question one of the things I would encourage

[00:30:33] people to do this goes back to the question that we were saying you and Brandon you and I

[00:30:37] were saying which is like how do we have that conversation with our sales leader and our managers

[00:30:41] which is when we think about innovation and everybody wants to do innovative innovative things

[00:30:46] that requires creativity that requires daydreaming that requires going for a walk by

[00:30:50] a large body of water that doesn't require you standing in front of your computer 14 hours a day

[00:30:56] and so I think we have to be comfortable to not wait for permission to do these things

[00:31:03] and that's your point Christy as well people are sending out these prompts and saying this

[00:31:06] worked really well for me there's this you know collection of use cases that are happening

[00:31:11] across the ecosystem to get the results that people want the fascinating thing about AI though

[00:31:16] and some of the tools that people use especially on the creative side if all four of us type in

[00:31:21] the same prompt into copilot into chat gpt into other things the same exact words all four of us

[00:31:29] will get four different results and that kind of makes people go why shouldn't we get the same

[00:31:33] thing not necessarily and that's the power of it right I had this I had this test when I

[00:31:39] led a webinar for Microsoft alumni and I gave them the prompt and I had them type it was

[00:31:45] very simple it was it was create an image of a robot painting a self-portrait of themselves in

[00:31:51] an art studio and then I had them just sort of screenshot and put in the chat and every single

[00:31:56] one was different and they said why is that and I said that's kind of the art and the

[00:31:59] beauty of this whole thing right we don't understand it the minute we think we do

[00:32:03] and I think it brings so much curiosity and questions to people it's a change issue it's

[00:32:09] a humanity issue is what I would say and you know I remember back in the days when I was in consulting

[00:32:16] and I was going to all these sales trainings and I struggled with it because I felt like you know

[00:32:19] this isn't my forte but Christy where I had a mentor that came to me and said Bill you're

[00:32:24] thinking about it all wrong don't think of it as selling think of it as helping and I said

[00:32:29] oh that's a game changer I could do that and they said great don't ever say the word sell

[00:32:33] don't ever say the word proposal just say how can I help and then the rest of it will

[00:32:38] follow so to me that's where if I can spend more time asking people how can I help

[00:32:43] making them feel less alone in the world and helping them achieve their dreams and outcomes

[00:32:48] like I'm good sign me up so I love that so I want to reiterate something Bill because I think

[00:32:56] we've touched on it but I think it's super important if I look into the world of change

[00:33:01] as we go forward in particular with AI right AI is going to change your job or if it doesn't

[00:33:09] directly change your job it's going to provide an opportunity for you to change your job

[00:33:15] you think that the change management that is required by you know somebody like yourself or

[00:33:20] an organization is 70% on helping the person understand how their job is changing or how they're

[00:33:28] versus just changing the use of the technology and how to use the AI and because that's what I

[00:33:32] think I think that AI you know it's like people say well you have the major internet you had

[00:33:38] mobile phones and AI right mobile phones or mobile was just a different way of a different

[00:33:43] device of doing a lot of the same things we were already doing but this isn't this is very

[00:33:48] different and so it is going to change the job where do you see that change management

[00:33:52] really needing to be focused I think it's more like 90 10 honestly okay um I mean to me we're

[00:33:59] on we're on the eve of what I think next week or the week after apple is going to do their

[00:34:03] wwdc right and there's all these rumors about how this stuff is going to be right in the

[00:34:07] phone and it's going to change everything I personally think this this technology is teaching

[00:34:13] us more about who we are than we've ever done before because it really does test us in

[00:34:20] a way to say what is human versus what is generated what is believable versus what should

[00:34:26] be questioned what can be trusted versus what is disinformation and misinformation

[00:34:30] all of this is happening at such a pace and it's happening in every sector of our life

[00:34:36] so I personally believe the change management is more 90 percent on the humanity of this

[00:34:41] and 10 on the tools and technology Brandon I think you wanted to jump in

[00:34:45] well I know I mean I I'm trying to formulate the question and the comment there um I think I

[00:34:53] agree with you and then as my my concern and so like I've been wearing my ceo hat in my company

[00:35:00] and as we're growing and hiring people and doing all that um and I've all I've been very

[00:35:06] very focused on culture my whole career I'm like you very empathetic learned that in childhood

[00:35:12] all of that but what I see a lot of times especially in moments where I've done more

[00:35:16] consulting work and talk with other ceos and like well how did you do this how did you that

[00:35:21] when I start getting into that empathy and actually genuinely caring for people

[00:35:27] they just would like floop it's like they wanted the outcome but they didn't want to

[00:35:32] actually genuinely care about their people that much and what I hear you saying is 90 percent

[00:35:38] of it is about the people and about our humanity and we are at a pivotal point of trying to help

[00:35:45] people understand themselves better it's like collectively globally we all need to go to

[00:35:50] therapy together in order to take on this ai thing because we got to know ourselves better

[00:35:55] to lead ourselves better and that's where my biggest fear is right now is that we we humans

[00:36:00] don't do that well and we don't want to do that well and a lot of managers and leaders

[00:36:05] don't want to create that culture for their companies because they see it as light and fluffy

[00:36:10] or not important or go do that on your own time and I think that's going to be a big big

[00:36:16] challenge right now yeah I'm gonna jump in here oh go ahead bill you haven't mentioned this yet

[00:36:23] but um and I'm a big bernay brown fan but I suspect that you are as well you just haven't

[00:36:27] said so um but when you talk about in a so a couple things you said like took me to bernay

[00:36:31] right away one innovation and creativity has to come from a place of vulnerability

[00:36:36] and so brandon to your point and again like as someone who is dating uh you know one of the

[00:36:43] first questions I ask men is in a roundabout way have you done your work right because I've

[00:36:48] done my work I know your shit huh christy have you owned your own shit and done your work right

[00:36:54] um does that disqualify a lot of people right away it disqualifies a lot of people

[00:36:58] right away actually yeah because that book because my favorite response is what does that

[00:37:02] mean so that I know we have them and I know we're disconnected right it's like if I write

[00:37:06] right away I know if we're in the same ballpark or not but it's that again like so you know

[00:37:11] bernay would bernay brown also describes empathy versus sympathy right as two very

[00:37:16] different things and I love the analogy she uses and she says you know you're walking

[00:37:19] along and someone has fallen down into a hole right you fall into the well and you know

[00:37:25] you're like hey what's going on down there and you're like fell into the hole that sucks

[00:37:29] right you know sympathy is saying that sucks empathy is getting down with them

[00:37:37] right going into the hole to help them out as opposed to just yelling from the top

[00:37:42] sucks to be down there in the hole doesn't it right you know and so you know she says

[00:37:46] you know that you know me too right it's the me too it's like hey I've had that happen too

[00:37:51] this is how I feel about it but when you go when you talked about innovation and creativity

[00:37:55] and then reyna what you said I'm like well that all of that all we're all that we're talking about

[00:37:59] and asking people to do comes from a place of vulnerability yeah right and then the fear around

[00:38:05] and then the fear around being vulnerable at work right and the fear of saying hey I'm worried

[00:38:10] about this ai thing I'm worried about my job I'm worried about how I'm going to feed my family

[00:38:14] all of that comes from a place of vulnerability that not everybody's comfortable going to

[00:38:19] yeah yeah I think one of the this sorry I was just going to mention really quick this is

[00:38:25] exactly why in my dream world Chrissy like I would have corporations read Atlas of the Heart

[00:38:33] right by by Renee Brown now I know that's not going to happen but to the best of my ability

[00:38:38] I sort of surreptitiously weave all of what you've said into my work for people to your

[00:38:43] point Brandon sometimes they glaze over and they're like this is not my thing okay great

[00:38:47] no problem I will find another way to get the tenets of what I'm saying into the work that we're

[00:38:52] doing not everybody's a bernie brown fan don't need to be but I think at the core of who we all

[00:38:57] are nobody wants to be lonely people want to make sure that they take care of their loved ones

[00:39:03] and they want to leave a legacy in this world I really think that's what it comes down to

[00:39:08] and those are indisputable you know I want to bring that I love I love this conversation by

[00:39:16] the way I'm so glad they let me off the plane you know it when we talk about LinkedIn we talk

[00:39:24] about social selling and you guys know I hate the word social selling but when we think about

[00:39:28] LinkedIn in general the people that do it better than others are the ones who Christy

[00:39:35] own their shit they've done the work they know who they are they've got good clarity on who they

[00:39:40] are so that they could say this is me authentically and and because if not and we

[00:39:46] talked about this I led a workshop yesterday with the team and and when you get to that point

[00:39:51] in these workshops I never know where it's going to go right there's usually one person

[00:39:56] in there with their arms folded and they're like you know business and personal you know

[00:40:01] they they shall never meet in the middle and you know business is business and personal is

[00:40:05] personal and I always go bullshit business has never been business and personal has never

[00:40:10] just been personal business has always been personal to me and to most people that are very

[00:40:16] successful at it because you can't separate your humanity from your job and and I think that we're

[00:40:25] with like the term imposter syndrome I think the only reason I posted about this a lot lately

[00:40:31] it's been coming up a lot the only reason we even have this term imposter syndrome is

[00:40:36] people are uncomfortable on their own skin and now it's just going to magnify with all these

[00:40:43] different tools so let's say you've got a gong or a fathom or something that's recording

[00:40:50] calls for salespeople and you start getting these AI analysis of it what are you going

[00:40:54] to see you're going to start being able to see some of that stuff are you empowered by

[00:40:59] your company are you empowered in the culture and do you have the courage to start looking

[00:41:03] at this stuff going okay well that's really who I am how do I move this forward how do I take

[00:41:09] myself to the next level in order to be more successful and am I willing to change and if it

[00:41:15] feels hard am I willing to ask for help again to your point like that's why in this world

[00:41:22] I'm very fortunate I know I'm going to be gainfully employed for quite a while because

[00:41:26] there will be no AI bot that will ever replace empathy I'm not worried

[00:41:33] so let's look ahead you know and Bill I have a software company we were talking beforehand I

[00:41:38] have a software company that sells to manufacturers and wholesale distributors which are not the most

[00:41:44] technical people in the world right and they're getting hit right now with the whole digital

[00:41:50] transformation which is in a lot of these companies they're still using spreadsheets and

[00:41:54] email to do everything combined with AI right all at the same time to kind of you talk about

[00:42:00] the super perfect storm I guess of of change that's going on and one of the questions that

[00:42:06] I get a lot and it's I'm taking a lot of notes here because I one of the things I know

[00:42:11] that we've natively done well is provide that empathy right we really help them and I didn't

[00:42:16] know what we were doing but that's what we were doing really well and I think we can do

[00:42:19] more of it but one of the questions that we get a lot is what is the world going to look like in

[00:42:26] two years five years as a sales professional right and and the people I work with are people

[00:42:32] that are going to job sites and you know construction projects and but you're still

[00:42:37] relationship you're still selling your so what do you think it's going to look like where

[00:42:41] do you think we're going to be with AI and what is the sales world going to look like in

[00:42:45] the next two years three years five years whatever yeah I love this question because

[00:42:50] because I'm able to reflect and also project I would love to be a futurist whoever whoever

[00:42:54] gets those jobs as futurists on their business cards like I'd love to know who they are and

[00:42:58] how they got those jobs but I'll give you I'll give you an example um and so folks know

[00:43:04] I've been through the entire history of CRMs and sales like from Siebel to Oracle to Net

[00:43:10] Suite to Salesforce to Dynamics to all of it I've been through it all and and what was really

[00:43:16] interesting about that whole evolution was every time you met with a seller and you realized

[00:43:21] that they had the opportunity some someone gave them the opportunity to get out from behind

[00:43:25] the system and spend time with a customer they they ran at the chance I think the future of

[00:43:32] sales looks a little like this and I'm going to give a specific industry example for you

[00:43:36] Tom because it might relate I supported a lot of agricultural lending clients in the past right

[00:43:41] these are people who are lending uh loans to farmers across this country and I learned so

[00:43:47] much in that time because now I have a true appreciation for farm to table right and when

[00:43:53] I think about how you sell to that very unique set of people it's cultural it's trustworthy

[00:43:59] it's you have to show up and what was really interesting was when we had this opportunity to

[00:44:03] say hey you can do all these digital signatures and you don't actually have to get in the car

[00:44:07] and go out to meet the customer a lot of people came back and said don't take that away from me

[00:44:12] that's important to me give me the technology to enable to do other things but do not take

[00:44:17] that interaction away from me so if I think about that example in the future it looks a

[00:44:21] little bit like this there's a drone that a the farmer might use or a seller might say hey

[00:44:28] you can use this drone it goes up it assesses the entire farmland it takes pictures of all

[00:44:32] the things they need it does the you know the acreage the hectares all that other stuff does

[00:44:36] all that work that typically takes a lot of time puts that into a system does calculations

[00:44:41] based on what's in the market based on the bank based on the savings based on the interest

[00:44:44] rates does all that stuff for them that's all a lot of time that's been saved and then

[00:44:50] it says hey why don't you just spend time going out to the farm visiting with the

[00:44:54] farmer getting to know his family talking about the next generation of who's going to

[00:44:58] own the farm what they need and let's have the conversation there and what you're selling is

[00:45:04] potential what you're selling is the next generation you're not selling for the problem today

[00:45:10] that small example because we enabled it with digital technology because we put things in the

[00:45:15] hands of people we gave them back time and we said how would you like to use your time

[00:45:19] and they told us nothing came close to that relationship every single time and I think if

[00:45:24] you do that in manufacturing if you do that in warehousing if you do that all of this stuff can

[00:45:28] help with sensors and pictures and I can pull up my phone take a picture of something that's

[00:45:33] sitting on a palette and say how do I move this or sell this or whatever and it tells me now

[00:45:40] right that that's great like now I get to have different time allocation and conversations

[00:45:46] to me that brings me a lot of joy and hope and creativity it goes back to what Bob said

[00:45:51] everyone is creative everyone is highly creative we just have to be given reasons

[00:45:56] and permission and belief to spend it there well and I think related to you know Bob was

[00:46:02] saying not everyone is creative but I think everyone if again guided and provide empathy

[00:46:08] could find a better way of using their time in their job in their role right whether it's

[00:46:13] creativity or just being building more relationships and and and so forth I agree

[00:46:20] um the question I get a lot as well is my job going to go away right with AI I think there

[00:46:25] will be some jobs that go away because they're just going to be redundant with AI but I what

[00:46:30] I tell people mostly is no AI is going to make you a better version of what your what you hired

[00:46:36] came on to be right and some people won't some people probably won't make it some people won't

[00:46:41] really have the ability to be that better version but if you really start to think out

[00:46:46] of the box boy there's a long way you could go not just in that time that you were talking

[00:46:51] about but just in the overall value you're providing in the sales role and you can't be

[00:46:56] afraid I mean I think the people that are the people that are asking that question are probably

[00:47:00] also the people that have a fear of the technology like they're not they're not trying

[00:47:05] to educate themselves they're not you know like you know I jumped on that chat dbt thing

[00:47:10] right away became a paid version right away as soon you know as soon as I could

[00:47:14] and I've you know again like I still feel like I'm scratching the surface but I'm not afraid of it

[00:47:19] I want to better understand it right and then I better I want to better understand again like

[00:47:23] granny mentioned fathom like that was life-changing for me when I like finally like you know I'm an

[00:47:28] old-school girl I'm a pencil and paper girl every client has its own notebook with its own

[00:47:33] color and I love taking right I love taking notes but um but I also send a follow-up email

[00:47:38] every time I talk to somebody right and I'm doing that a lot faster right I still like this is still

[00:47:45] who I am at the core but I'm using that fathom to take that summary copy paste that into my

[00:47:50] crm system use that as my follow-up email and you know and again that gives me time to do

[00:47:56] other things with my family um you know I mean I like exercise is important to me that

[00:48:01] gives me more time to you know to do cardio but I think if you're fearing it and you're

[00:48:05] afraid it's going to take your job and you're also not trying to educate yourself that probably

[00:48:10] is a recipe for disaster in the future yeah you know what I would say go ahead Brandon

[00:48:16] right um you know there's there's a lot of it depends on the way that we frame it to people

[00:48:22] too and be able to cast that vision form and here's the example um so the workshop I

[00:48:27] led yesterday I've led lots of these workshops before prior to ai it was sitting down with

[00:48:34] people trying to encourage motivate cast vision as to why it was valuable for them to take the

[00:48:41] time to figure out how to write a social post right that's really hard for most people you

[00:48:46] sit there and go I don't I don't know what to write I don't know what's right so a lot of

[00:48:50] it was that coaching the motivation the encouragement the attaboy attagirl you can do it and believe

[00:48:57] in and now that shifted because of ai because of things like our our digital twins that we built

[00:49:06] on top of open ai and so now I was able to work with them on why is this social content

[00:49:12] important for you as a salesperson not didn't have to spend so much time on you can do it

[00:49:19] because then I said all right hey let's go let's go take your transcripts from your call we

[00:49:25] went in and pre-trained a twin and then we take the thing we take their transcripts we run in and

[00:49:31] we go okay here's the buttons you can create which the buttons are prompts we just you know

[00:49:36] fabricated prompts for them so they didn't have to think about it and go how many do you want

[00:49:40] oh you want three social posts out of it we turned a one hour conversation with the customer

[00:49:46] into five social posts and a linkedin blog article in a matter of minutes and now all

[00:49:52] they had to do was go and edit a few things and it's not so much that it saved them time

[00:49:59] because they weren't doing it before because without the ai it was so overwhelming to them

[00:50:04] that they would just go oh yeah linkedin doesn't work or you know all the other

[00:50:08] reasons to not do it and now yesterday I had a group of people that I hadn't experienced

[00:50:13] in a long time in a workshop where we're coming out of it they actually liked me we

[00:50:17] went to dinner you know they weren't like telling they weren't scared of me because

[00:50:21] I'm the guy that's trying to scare you know force them to do something that they're so

[00:50:25] scared to do which is write something for public consumption yeah Brandon do you think

[00:50:31] you got to spend more time yesterday on the why versus the how as the result of that in

[00:50:36] the workshop absolutely absolutely and they asked a lot more questions that were more

[00:50:41] forward thinking where in the past a lot of questions were still try to convince me

[00:50:47] you know here's let me throw this roadblock in front of Brandon because I don't really want

[00:50:50] to do it and it wasn't that they didn't want the outcomes of it it scared them to death to

[00:50:56] create content and I mean you can get into the brenda brown stuff too people don't want to be

[00:51:01] vulnerable like what if I post something and no one cares like you know I used to say well

[00:51:06] you are going to post stuff and no one will care that's just part of the process that's

[00:51:10] why you don't it's not a one and done type of thing but this way it was hey what if I

[00:51:16] told you that you could have this this and that and it would be lightweight and easy for you

[00:51:21] and then we could get excited and then I showed them how to do it and work you know they're all

[00:51:25] like kicking out three four five different posts like oh my gosh this is really cool

[00:51:30] and now they're excited the post that I've posted on social that have gotten the most attention

[00:51:36] have almost all revolved around my son and the things that my son and I do because we're

[00:51:41] huge sports junkies and we're big j-hawk fans as most of you know and so like when I post things

[00:51:47] about us being you know like hey like we you know we got bowl eligible we were at the game

[00:51:50] where we became bowl eligible which is a big deal if you're k-u football fan but I mean like

[00:51:55] those things and again and I always try to tie it back to business just because that's just

[00:51:58] kind of how my brain works but in general I think I didn't wouldn't even have to have done

[00:52:02] that and I think bill goes back to everything you've been saying today which is people want

[00:52:06] a human connection with other humans and you know I'm not somebody who talks openly a lot

[00:52:12] about my personal life my son's now an adult he's now in of an age where I don't have a

[00:52:15] problem posting him before I would have never done that but it gives them a little glimpse

[00:52:20] into how I spend my off hours what I'm passionate about what I care about you know

[00:52:25] and I spend a lot of time with my son during basketball and football season and I think that

[00:52:28] resonates with people to your point I think people are like wow like it seems like maybe

[00:52:32] I work 70 hours a week but that's actually not the case yeah you know one of my proudest

[00:52:37] moments when I was consulting over the course of 20 years was when a client a CIO I was in the

[00:52:42] middle of briefing all the deliverables and he cut me off and he said yeah yeah we'll get to

[00:52:47] that tell me about you where did you grow up how were you raised what's important to you

[00:52:54] what are your values what are your convictions and I was like what does this have to do with

[00:52:57] the S.O.W. right and at the end of it he said we'll get back to that we'll get back to

[00:53:01] that I did all that he got to know me a little bit I finished my brief he said your brief was

[00:53:07] great anyway it was you know he's across the board what I really want to ask you is will you

[00:53:12] mentor my son I mean how do you put that in your performance review like how do I go back

[00:53:18] and say this is this is noteworthy and to me that's those memorable moments and so if

[00:53:26] things like AI and all that other stuff helps us get to a place where we can have those

[00:53:30] bridges I'm all for it love that yeah and as we wrap up here I want to hit I want to hit

[00:53:38] Cathy's comment and then I have one final question for you Bill based on something

[00:53:43] you mentioned earlier because it's something that's been going through my head but um first of

[00:53:47] all Cathy said she's got 10 hours back and is spending more time on strategic partnerships so

[00:53:53] that's working and then she had a second follow-up question here which I think is really good

[00:53:58] she's talking about it and I assume she works at Microsoft she's saying they're discussing how

[00:54:02] leaders need to be prepared how to teach people how to use the extra time we must be ready for

[00:54:08] it when it works and not assume people will be more productive what will this really do to your

[00:54:12] workforce how do you sales leaders get in front of this effectively I know we've touched on

[00:54:16] this before but boy it seems like that's going to be the biggest change management challenge

[00:54:21] it is because it is and the way sellers sales leaders get effective or get in front of it is

[00:54:26] they have to have thought about it like there's nothing worse than standing in front of a group

[00:54:31] of people and being like I think you should do this when you yourself as a leader have not

[00:54:36] formed your own stance belief and position on it so sellers sales leaders you have to literally

[00:54:43] go take a long walk and think about this stuff literally that's it like get away from

[00:54:48] the computer get away from the tools think about this stuff how is it going to change you

[00:54:53] the way you interact your interactions with customers partners teams and then start from

[00:55:00] a place of vulnerability like we've all been discussing and then do it together like nobody

[00:55:04] has the perfect answer on this there's no textbook for this we'll do it together you

[00:55:09] know this reminds me of the data and the research on four-day work weeks I mean a ton

[00:55:17] of data that says four days is more productive than five days but we generally across the

[00:55:24] board are unable to hear that because I think it just scares the hell out of us to think

[00:55:29] we're only going to work four days instead of five days and I think the same foundation

[00:55:33] is the same we're using AI to help us streamline get back time Cathy's got 10

[00:55:40] hours back but we don't trust our people to use that wisely in order to just give it back to them

[00:55:48] or even trust them to train them how to try and use it wisely like we're still not

[00:55:54] we're not comfortable overall as a culture with allowing our people to have critical

[00:55:59] thinking for themselves versus us just telling them what to do and when to do it

[00:56:04] but that sounds fair totally fair judgment I don't know if that makes sense

[00:56:12] I think I see this a lot in sales um I wrote a I wrote a post a while back that you know stop

[00:56:18] scripting like like stop scripting calls these call like hey sales leaders stop scripting calls

[00:56:23] right I call it checking your brain at the door right I mean we don't want people to what we

[00:56:27] don't want our employees walking through the door checking their brain thinking that everything

[00:56:31] is just we just have to follow the form as long as we follow the formula as long as we follow

[00:56:35] the formula we don't we we don't want a society of people who check their brain at the door

[00:56:40] and so what I tell people when I teach you know I said yes I have to get you I have to

[00:56:43] give you something in order to put you on the phone for the very first time right

[00:56:46] you will freak out if I don't give you some sort of of you know format but I'm going to

[00:56:50] give you an outline right I'm going to give you an outline of you know we're going to do

[00:56:55] you know for a live call we're going to do an introduction we're going to ask our

[00:56:58] qualification questions we're going to do a transition statement that says yes based on

[00:57:02] what you've told me that we should talk again or no based on what you told me we shouldn't talk

[00:57:05] again and then we're going to give the cta you know and within there and then I go and then why

[00:57:09] don't you go write something that sounds like you and I think you know I was I can't remember

[00:57:15] where I was who I was talking to the other day but I'm now asking for writing samples

[00:57:19] from from sales candidates because I'm freaked out that you know that text talk as I call it

[00:57:28] because my son's you know my my son's famous line is mom that was not a call that was a text

[00:57:32] like he's not doing that um he says it's reality mom that that was a text um but the text talk

[00:57:38] like you know like uh like he was saying he sent me something from my nephew who was 13 and

[00:57:43] the two of them were communicating two days ago and we my son said something to him and he

[00:57:48] just came back with fr and he my son sent it to me thought was hilarious he's like this

[00:57:51] is hilarious I go well it would be probably more funny if I knew what fr is right and I'm

[00:57:56] just like and he goes never mind he was so deflated he's like never mind like you missed

[00:58:00] the punch line but I'm afraid I mean like those like writing skills like I've never I'd never

[00:58:05] I mean I've been a sales leader or a consultant for 24 years I didn't live until the last year

[00:58:10] I've never asked for writing samples probably one of the greatest skills you can have nowadays

[00:58:16] right it is as a journalism major I should I definitely give it the emphasis that that it

[00:58:20] needs in my own world but you know as we get more reliant on those kind of things like

[00:58:25] I need to know that you can actually write that you're not that chat gbt is not going to be your

[00:58:29] writing partner yeah that's right so so bill as we wrap up here one final question and

[00:58:35] and thank you for this has been awesome some great conversation with the comments

[00:58:39] you mentioned the apple developer conference happening later this month and I think we're

[00:58:44] going to learn whether it's right away or very soon our phones are going to be our own

[00:58:49] our own large language models our own ai devices and I was talking to my wife about this

[00:58:55] and I watched her get very nervous about this do you think that we're going to we have a big

[00:59:00] change in management exercise on our hands as it relates to our personal devices and the things

[00:59:06] like our phone and how they're going to look and feel and operate in the next year maybe

[00:59:12] yeah absolutely I do I mean think about it these have become our logical extension of our

[00:59:16] appendages I would argue that probably everyone on this call your phone is within reach when

[00:59:23] you're sleeping no matter where you are when you're in the car so to answer your question Tom I do

[00:59:28] think it is going to completely change our lives when this thing that has become a digital

[00:59:32] appendage of us has all the knowledge of the world ever written at your fingertips well and

[00:59:39] yourself right yourself you talk about knowing yourself it's going to know more about you

[00:59:43] than you know about yourself that's right that's right every habit every I mean think about I

[00:59:48] wear the aura ring it's got all that stuff in there so this brings up the questions again

[00:59:53] we're going to learn more about ourselves and who we are because of this technology than we ever

[00:59:58] thought possible and some people are going to say I don't want it I don't need this I'm going

[01:00:02] to set barriers I'm going to disengage I was on a podcast a couple weeks ago somebody said

[01:00:06] could this go really really wrong and I said it might we might all decide that we're going

[01:00:10] to take huge leaps back to get back to our humanity that's very possible and when that happens

[01:00:17] you know where to find me okay all right well bill if somebody wants to find you where can

[01:00:22] they connect with you I assume on LinkedIn definitely on LinkedIn so just look up Bill

[01:00:26] Kirst I'm pretty prolific there I'm also on Instagram I did write a book called Everword

[01:00:34] it's a poetry collection when I think about our humanity I decided to start writing poetry many

[01:00:40] many years ago and I decided to publish this being my first one because I think poetry is

[01:00:44] one place where we will always have our humanity so you can look that up but yeah

[01:00:49] that's probably the best place to find me and I'm happy to reach out and connect with anyone

[01:00:53] you can tell I'm passionate about this topic and thanks for having me on today great and

[01:00:57] Kristy thank you for sitting in for Carson you did an awesome job thank you thanks for

[01:01:02] having me yeah well definitely and Brandon I'm glad you were able to fly in for us

[01:01:08] thanks Brandon sponsored by yeah sponsored by Delta there just to tell Bob

[01:01:15] yeah yeah girl that was excellent today thanks so much really appreciate it and Kristy I'm so

[01:01:21] excited you're going to be our ongoing guest host I love it yeah more good conversations with Bill

[01:01:27] like these kind of conversations I love these this is gonna get jealous and he's gonna want

[01:01:31] to come more often we may not we may not let him come back after his Caribbean trip

[01:01:37] we'll just have him as a guest yeah there you go all right sounds good Brandon you want

[01:01:43] to wrap us up sure thank you everybody for joining us again and real quick on the podcast if you

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