MMS #87 - Empowering Partnerships: Unlocking Revenue Potential with Vince Menzione

[00:00:00] .

[00:00:30] leaders, whether you're a seasoned executive or an aspiring leader.

[00:00:33] This podcast is your backstage pass to today's business landscape.

[00:00:38] This is Mastering Modern Selling brought to you by Fist Bump.

[00:00:50] Everyone welcome to episode number 87, Mastering Modern Selling.

[00:00:55] Jeez.

[00:00:56] Feeling old.

[00:00:57] I know.

[00:00:57] 87 man we're getting up there.

[00:01:00] Now we're going to be in that we're going to pass that century mark soon.

[00:01:04] We're getting there.

[00:01:05] We got Daniel Disney for episode 100 too.

[00:01:08] Oh, is that all booked?

[00:01:09] Yeah.

[00:01:09] All right.

[00:01:10] I'm ready to go.

[00:01:10] All right.

[00:01:11] Brandon, welcome.

[00:01:12] Thank you.

[00:01:14] Brandon, my co-host Carson working again, planning, doing sales stuff.

[00:01:18] Man, we're going to have to change that, but we have another great guest here.

[00:01:23] Vince Menzione.

[00:01:24] Vince, welcome.

[00:01:25] Thank you, Tom.

[00:01:26] Brandon.

[00:01:26] Great to see you again, my friend.

[00:01:28] Good to see you too.

[00:01:30] I think you were episode 215 for me.

[00:01:32] So we're up there.

[00:01:33] We're up in the...

[00:01:34] Oh man.

[00:01:34] All right.

[00:01:34] Well, we got some work to do then.

[00:01:36] We got some work to do.

[00:01:38] All right.

[00:01:39] Well, I know we're going to try and make it...

[00:01:40] We're going to cover a lot in a short period of time.

[00:01:43] So let's jump right into this.

[00:01:45] Vince, we're going to talk about partnerships today and the role of

[00:01:48] partnerships and modern selling.

[00:01:50] Take us through a little bit of your background a little bit, and then

[00:01:53] we'll dive in with some hopefully insightful questions.

[00:01:58] Yeah.

[00:01:58] So I've described my career as four successful business transformations.

[00:02:01] I started out carrying a bag, Tom.

[00:02:03] So back in the days, early days of wireless computing before wifi helped

[00:02:08] the company grow from 6 million to 125 million, go public on the

[00:02:11] Toronto exchange.

[00:02:12] I was the top seller in the company, built an influence strategy and

[00:02:16] did events and what I would call modern selling today, and also

[00:02:20] built a partnership strategy.

[00:02:21] But I was a direct seller and then leader of the

[00:02:24] organization moved up to CPP.

[00:02:27] I then followed a leader to do a turnaround.

[00:02:30] That company was trying to break into a new market government.

[00:02:34] And I knew that I needed an influence strategy to go into the

[00:02:37] government or we were fighting the 800 pound gorilla.

[00:02:41] That organization was eight times our size.

[00:02:44] I went to Washington, DC.

[00:02:46] I got a GSA schedule.

[00:02:49] I figured out a channel strategy in the day, like resellers.

[00:02:53] I also realized that selling to the government took a long time, but

[00:02:56] there were people that had a quicker path to the decision process, like

[00:03:00] hiring people that were colonels and generals and things like that.

[00:03:03] So we built an entire influence strategy and a partnership strategy.

[00:03:07] Grew the business exponentially and we were spun out by Golden Gate

[00:03:11] Capital in this turnaround.

[00:03:13] Golden Gate sold us 26 months later on the back of the work that I

[00:03:16] did in the business for 5X their total investment, 10X their cash

[00:03:21] investment.

[00:03:22] Microsoft recruited me.

[00:03:24] They don't usually recruit people the way they did, but they actually

[00:03:27] hired a recruiter and they brought me into the organization to lead the

[00:03:30] public sector partner business coming on the heels of that government

[00:03:33] experience.

[00:03:34] And so I ran what was a $4.6 billion business within Microsoft.

[00:03:38] Did that same job for nine years.

[00:03:40] I developed incredible relationships up and down the organization.

[00:03:44] And when they blew up my business and they reorganized and they

[00:03:46] wanted me to come to Seattle, I just moved to Jupiter, Florida.

[00:03:49] And my wife said, hell no, you're not going.

[00:03:51] And so I left and I started this podcast, The Ultimate Guide to

[00:03:55] Partnering because I realized that organizations struggled working with

[00:03:58] the tech giant, even though Microsoft has the biggest partner ecosystem,

[00:04:02] channel resellers, partners of all types.

[00:04:06] A lot of those organizations struggled.

[00:04:08] I also saw that Microsoft people struggled too, like getting their

[00:04:11] strategies right.

[00:04:12] So I started Ultimate Guide to Partnering.

[00:04:15] I went back inside for two years.

[00:04:16] I turned the podcast off at episode 60.

[00:04:20] Went back in for two years into a billion dollar company.

[00:04:23] And then I saw from their side how they struggled.

[00:04:26] I tried to fix it as best as I could.

[00:04:28] I got a partner of the year award status, but I left during COVID because I knew

[00:04:32] that I got as far as I could go.

[00:04:34] And I was bucking heads with this leadership team and that's what I focus

[00:04:37] in on now, it's why I'm so passionate about partnering.

[00:04:40] And then I started back on the path with Ultimate Partner.

[00:04:43] I do with the podcast.

[00:04:44] I host events.

[00:04:45] I do advisory work and I'm actually building a community now of

[00:04:49] organizations that are trying to partner with the three hyperscalers,

[00:04:52] Microsoft, Google, and Amazon.

[00:04:54] We'll talk a little bit more about that influence and what's happening

[00:04:56] in the world right now that I think, like I said earlier to you, I think

[00:05:00] there is a myopic view of selling and we're not zooming out.

[00:05:05] We're not seeing the bigger picture of what's really going on

[00:05:07] in these organizations today.

[00:05:09] Yeah.

[00:05:09] And Vince, that was, I mean, sorry, Tom, I want you to,

[00:05:11] Ben, that was why I was so excited to have you on the show and talk about that.

[00:05:15] I mean, so often we talk about sales and it's the, it's cold calls,

[00:05:19] it's cold emails, it's cold outreach, it's build your pipeline.

[00:05:23] And you've got a very, very different perspective on it.

[00:05:25] And it's one that I think is just going to keep getting more and more important

[00:05:29] as I see this big shift to partnerships, especially as you say, with the big

[00:05:33] three tech companies and probably a dozen or so big tech companies that

[00:05:39] aren't part of the big three that most of these professional service

[00:05:43] organizations are going to, you know, they're, they're going to attach

[00:05:47] to at some point here to survive.

[00:05:50] But, but Brandon also, you know, I'm listening right.

[00:05:52] What has been the heart and soul of everything we talk about in

[00:05:55] modern selling, building relationships, human relationships, not just,

[00:06:00] you know, pitch slapping and smiling and dialing, you know, Vince,

[00:06:03] what you're talking about is how do you build relationships and

[00:06:08] how do you build that ecosystem?

[00:06:09] But we've been talking predominantly between, you know, quote unquote

[00:06:13] vendor and prospect or vendor and customer.

[00:06:16] You're adding another layer into that where you've got the company

[00:06:19] or the vendor or the seller, right?

[00:06:21] If you want to call it that the seller, the buyer, and then all

[00:06:24] the other players, if you will, are stakeholders, influencers or whatever

[00:06:29] that are part of that ecosystem.

[00:06:31] But ultimately are going to result in a sale and Carson's talked a lot

[00:06:34] about this using LinkedIn, right?

[00:06:36] He's talking about a LinkedIn strategy, but I think you're looking

[00:06:40] at it even, even a bit more holistically and how do you build out that ecosystem?

[00:06:44] Yeah.

[00:06:45] And, you know, you and I were talking a little bit earlier, like I, I have

[00:06:48] the blue sheets from Miller Hyman still embedded in my brain.

[00:06:51] And I think about this whole influence strategy on what's really happening.

[00:06:54] What's the, what's the wind for the customer?

[00:06:56] Where were they going in the process?

[00:06:58] And our good friend, Jay McBain likes to talk about the seats at the table.

[00:07:01] There's more people at the table right now that are influencing

[00:07:04] the customer decision process.

[00:07:05] You need to make sure you you're developing a strategy to touch all those

[00:07:09] bases, to influence all those decisions and get to the help the

[00:07:13] customer get to the right outcome.

[00:07:14] You might be the main in that.

[00:07:16] You might be a portion of that decision process.

[00:07:20] And when we back up, and this is where I want to come into the whole

[00:07:22] hyperscaler conversation, the role of.

[00:07:25] So when we first started this co-selling, I was actually at Microsoft.

[00:07:28] We started this co-selling thing.

[00:07:29] Partners like, why do I need to part?

[00:07:31] Why don't we need to co-sell with Microsoft?

[00:07:33] Like you're selling office and Azure and stuff, but we don't.

[00:07:36] Like we don't need you.

[00:07:37] We know the customer better.

[00:07:38] You do well what's happened now with last few years around the cloud is

[00:07:42] that Microsoft, Amazon and Google have all gone in and said, Hey, if you

[00:07:46] really want to take advantage of our clouds, you got to sign these big

[00:07:48] commitments and of course we're going to give you huge discounts to get there.

[00:07:52] So there are a third of a trillion dollars in these large cloud commitments

[00:07:57] amongst the three hyperscalers.

[00:07:58] Now those are decisions that are being made at the board level.

[00:08:01] They're being made.

[00:08:02] I've heard the term that the CEO is the new CIO.

[00:08:05] So remember the CIO used to be the decision maker in tech no longer.

[00:08:08] It's the board that's making these decisions.

[00:08:10] So you're now riding on the rails of one or more of those

[00:08:13] three big hyperscalers.

[00:08:15] Layer in AI to this conversation.

[00:08:17] And that's a whole nother, it changes the game.

[00:08:19] And now organizations are realizing that if they effectively partner, they

[00:08:24] cut, see the customer, they've created mechanisms called marketplaces where

[00:08:28] now I can effectively take advantage of that budget.

[00:08:31] So if you're selling to Boeing and you're selling security software,

[00:08:35] if you, if you bought, if you put it on the marketplace and the customer

[00:08:38] can buy it off in the marketplace, they don't need to create new budget.

[00:08:42] They can go right to the budget that they already have in decrement against

[00:08:45] it, so they're helping to meet their commitment.

[00:08:47] So this created a whole new, uh, avenue and anchor of diamonds for organizations

[00:08:52] to go after budgets that they didn't know existed before.

[00:08:55] So do you predominantly coach the partner side of things or the

[00:09:00] buyer side of things or both?

[00:09:01] Or where, what's your sweet spot on all of this?

[00:09:04] My sweet spot is helping those partners.

[00:09:06] There are about a half a million partners just in the Microsoft ecosystem,

[00:09:10] but basically Google and Amazon are all after the same ecosystem of partners.

[00:09:15] And I bring, I bring the hyperscalers in the room through the podcast,

[00:09:19] through the events that I do and through the learnings.

[00:09:21] We're actually effectively becoming an education company now at Ultimate Partner.

[00:09:25] We've got a community, we've got a podcast, we've got events.

[00:09:28] And so we're, we're helping to educate the partners on how to be more effective.

[00:09:33] And in fact, you know, uh, Carson who's unfortunately not on today,

[00:09:37] Carson has been, he's, he's participated in some of this.

[00:09:40] He's helped us educate from the Microsoft side.

[00:09:42] He's been on panels where we've had some of the other experts and he's

[00:09:46] represented in the Microsoft voice because as an effective modern seller,

[00:09:50] he understands the importance of bringing those partners into customers.

[00:09:53] Right.

[00:09:54] So, yeah.

[00:09:55] And I think Vince, I knew when I was on your show and I kept accidentally

[00:10:00] saying using the word prospect and you would correct me, but, but the

[00:10:04] motions are basically the same with a lot of what we talk about with

[00:10:08] modern selling it's, it's focusing on that relationship.

[00:10:12] It's being consistent and it's, um, that swarm approach, uh, as we'd like to

[00:10:19] talk about on the show, Carson talks about, cause you said there's a

[00:10:22] lot more people at the, at the table.

[00:10:25] And if the board is becoming the new CIO and, and as you were saying,

[00:10:29] you've got lots of different decision makers in an organization that

[00:10:34] could tap into that pre-existing contract, it's really about going out.

[00:10:39] It's, it's about building wide relationships fast, but deep and

[00:10:46] not just pounding the phones.

[00:10:48] Am I, am I looking at that?

[00:10:50] The right way.

[00:10:51] Like pounding the phones doesn't work anymore.

[00:10:53] Right.

[00:10:53] Um, we have, we have, uh, security practices now, so we can't, you

[00:10:57] know, we were blocking the cookies.

[00:11:00] Uh, people are not, I mean, when was the last time you took a

[00:11:02] phone call from a, from a seller, right?

[00:11:04] Maybe, maybe you have more than I have, but I don't.

[00:11:07] And it's, it's all about people that I trust.

[00:11:09] And we saw this shift too.

[00:11:11] And I think the, a couple of things happen, right?

[00:11:14] I talk about tectonic shifts.

[00:11:16] We saw this shift when COVID happened, right?

[00:11:18] COVID accelerated everything.

[00:11:20] Uh, Satya Nadella said seven years of transformation in seven months.

[00:11:23] Right.

[00:11:24] But everything changed our lives change, education changed, healthcare

[00:11:27] changed, uh, the way we operate now with doing zoom calls and

[00:11:30] meetings like this prevalent.

[00:11:32] And, uh, I could tap, I can tap my phone three times in the box shows up

[00:11:36] at the door at the end of the day.

[00:11:37] Uh, so people got very used to this whole digital world of buying.

[00:11:43] They got used to making the decisions independent of a seller and not

[00:11:46] maybe having that face-to-face contact with sellers anymore.

[00:11:49] Like when was the last time you walked into a Best Buy

[00:11:51] to buy an electronic device?

[00:11:53] I know it's been a long time for me.

[00:11:55] Right.

[00:11:55] I'm just going to do it online.

[00:11:56] That same process has now happened in tech and in other industries

[00:12:00] where I'm gonna, I'm going to talk to the people that are, that I trust.

[00:12:05] The people that are part that are surrounding me.

[00:12:07] And some of those might be other vendors.

[00:12:09] They might be other partners that might be part of this

[00:12:11] entire like solution I'm trying.

[00:12:13] Like, as companies are coming at and going, here's my vision for the future.

[00:12:16] And it might be six things that they're trying to pull together.

[00:12:19] So they're talking to six different vendors to cobble that all together today.

[00:12:23] And all those vendors have a point of view, right?

[00:12:25] And if you're not touching bases and building your influence

[00:12:28] strategy with each of those, uh, I call them coaches, right?

[00:12:31] They each can be coaches for you too, in terms of understanding

[00:12:33] the buying behavior.

[00:12:35] The other thing that's happening too is the millennial generation

[00:12:37] has changed things too.

[00:12:38] And now they're the predominant buyer in the corporate world.

[00:12:42] Now they want to get to end a job.

[00:12:45] 75% of them want to get to end a job without ever talking to somebody.

[00:12:49] Right?

[00:12:49] So this is, this is a generation that grew up in digital and, and

[00:12:53] maybe don't have the same level of skills that some of us older guys

[00:12:56] have, uh, or don't think that way.

[00:12:58] So everything is changing from a buying behavior perspective as well.

[00:13:02] Yeah.

[00:13:03] So Vince, let's, we have a lot of Microsoft partners that watch our

[00:13:08] show and are involved for them to grow, for them to partner better with

[00:13:15] Microsoft or any, any partner with the big three, what are the key

[00:13:19] activities that they need to focus on?

[00:13:22] Yeah.

[00:13:22] So, I mean, I have a set of operating principles here.

[00:13:25] This is a loaded question brand.

[00:13:27] All right.

[00:13:27] So we're not going to go through all the operating

[00:13:29] principles or the dysfunctions.

[00:13:31] But I think what, um, uh, challenge or what people don't do when they

[00:13:37] don't do it the right way is they're not deliberate enough in their

[00:13:40] engagement with the, with the tech giant.

[00:13:43] They look at the tech, they don't look at the, that they actually have

[00:13:45] to sell to the tech giant as part of their strategy to sell to the customer.

[00:13:50] And building that influence strategy within the tech giant is also

[00:13:53] important for success because it's a flywheel, so you could build an

[00:13:58] effective co-sale and you're also fighting for the attention of these

[00:14:01] sellers like Carson, who I'm sure he's got hundreds and hundreds of partners

[00:14:05] that want to come work with him in his customer base and in the

[00:14:09] tech for social impact space.

[00:14:10] So, uh, how do you, how do you get that attention?

[00:14:12] First of all, you show up and be successful.

[00:14:15] You tell your story often and early and often you show the

[00:14:18] metrics on why I should work with you.

[00:14:21] And I do that with Microsoft as well as with the customer.

[00:14:24] Like I need, I need to build these allies, these ally ships, and I

[00:14:27] need to have that so that they are also helping bringing me along,

[00:14:31] bringing me in on opportunities.

[00:14:33] Maybe white space opportunities, maybe opportunities where we're already

[00:14:36] engaged and maybe we have some blockers and that's where a Microsoft

[00:14:40] or a Google or an Amazon can help because they are having

[00:14:43] the C-suite conversations.

[00:14:45] So if you're getting blocked, maybe in the business and you

[00:14:47] have somebody who can go above work and help influence your strategy.

[00:14:50] Again, I go back to my blue sheet with all my buying influences

[00:14:54] and I want to make sure I'm covering all my bases and I'm

[00:14:56] getting to all the buying influences here.

[00:14:58] Those partners can, Microsoft can help you do that.

[00:15:01] That's one of the effective things that they can do, but you've got

[00:15:04] to build an influence strategy to sell, co-sell with Microsoft and

[00:15:08] you have to think of them as your biggest customer.

[00:15:10] And then you go from there.

[00:15:12] Events would, if I am a partner, would I be well served to really

[00:15:18] make sure I'm really honing in on what my primary subject matter expertise

[00:15:23] is and how I can differentiate at myself and kind of the pieces of the puzzle.

[00:15:28] I would see, it sounds like what I'm hearing you say is the idea

[00:15:30] of the general partner who can do anything and everything is probably

[00:15:34] not the wave of the future and I really need to go in and be that

[00:15:38] a key piece of the puzzle and know all the other pieces of the puzzle

[00:15:42] and work with those people in a good way where they say, okay, yeah,

[00:15:45] you're a good teammate to potentially have in here.

[00:15:48] Great, great point, Tom.

[00:15:49] You know, you can, you may be able to do everything.

[00:15:52] Um, you could be a systems integrator with all these capabilities and skills,

[00:15:56] but you got to niche down.

[00:15:58] And I like to talk about the bucket, the shiny quarter in a bucket

[00:16:02] full of shiny quarters, cause that's exactly what you are to a Carson

[00:16:05] or any other seller at one of the hyperscalers or any partnership strategy.

[00:16:09] So you got to niche down.

[00:16:10] What is the one thing that you do better different?

[00:16:13] It might not be technology.

[00:16:15] It might be that you have your organization has

[00:16:17] relationships at the CFO level.

[00:16:19] I have a client who has great CFO advisory level relationships,

[00:16:24] cause they're the tax, the tax in audit for those organizations.

[00:16:27] And they can bring the tech giant in at a level where they're not normally

[00:16:31] having a conversation, one of the rooms of the house.

[00:16:34] So what is the one thing you do better or differently than the others?

[00:16:37] Then that's why I need the compelling reason why I need to work with you.

[00:16:42] All right.

[00:16:42] Go ahead, Brandon.

[00:16:43] Well, yeah, I know I hear, I hear Carson and some of the other as

[00:16:47] we've gotten to know a lot of other, a lot more Microsoft sellers.

[00:16:50] And one of the things that they say is come to me as a partner

[00:16:55] and help me reach club.

[00:16:57] I know that's a thing Carson says, right?

[00:16:59] Go ask any Microsoft seller and say, what do you need to reach club?

[00:17:03] And if you partner with them to reach club, then you're going to have

[00:17:05] a really good friend that's going to help you with, you know, bring deals

[00:17:09] to you, and I know you've got your operating principles, but from that

[00:17:13] perspective, like what's your advice to partners from that?

[00:17:17] How do I help you reach club perspective?

[00:17:20] So for the partners on how to help the sellers reach, I love the club piece.

[00:17:24] By the way, there's also a term called red jacket.

[00:17:26] So when you get to the very top, the very pinnacle, and I think I'm

[00:17:30] pretty sure Carson has been there.

[00:17:31] You got a red jacket.

[00:17:32] So that's like the top.

[00:17:33] That's the top of the top of the steep.

[00:17:36] He that's the 1% club.

[00:17:38] Uh, but for the partner side, we talk about the seven things

[00:17:42] they need to think about you.

[00:17:43] First of all, you need to get your own internal house in order because

[00:17:46] you also have to change mindsets within your own organization.

[00:17:49] And, but you know, a lot of times when you look at a CRO and we won't

[00:17:54] just talk about systems integrators.

[00:17:55] I like to talk primarily about builders organizations that have software

[00:17:59] SaaS software that are, that are applying modern selling, but maybe

[00:18:03] they have a pedigree of a direct sales model and how do they need

[00:18:07] to go do things differently?

[00:18:08] Firstly, you got to get your own mindset in house in order.

[00:18:11] You need to understand that partnerships is important and it's got to be

[00:18:14] infused into the business both internally, and you have to have trust.

[00:18:18] Because if you don't have trust, you're never going to, you're

[00:18:21] never going to really, you're not going to have this fluid

[00:18:24] relationship with the partner.

[00:18:25] Like you're, you're going to hold things back.

[00:18:27] You're not going to share.

[00:18:28] You're not going to your sellers are control freaks.

[00:18:30] They're not going to want to go sell with another person and

[00:18:32] rely on another person to help carry the water for them.

[00:18:35] You got to get all those things straight.

[00:18:37] And then when you move to the other side, it's things around brand and story.

[00:18:42] It's the conversation around what sets you apart.

[00:18:44] What makes you different?

[00:18:45] It's then building the success building that a successful fly wheel

[00:18:49] by delivering a result, maybe in an account and then continuing to build

[00:18:53] that and let's say I was working with Carson in his territory and I

[00:18:57] know he's in tech for social impact.

[00:18:59] But now I know that once I built that and I'm known within tech

[00:19:02] for social impact, I go to Carson and team, Hey, can you help us?

[00:19:05] We also sell into healthcare.

[00:19:07] We sell into education.

[00:19:08] Can you help me go across the business and help me get introduced

[00:19:13] into the other teams there?

[00:19:14] Cause then that's all funnel building activity for your organization.

[00:19:17] So I built a little bit of I've landed, I've put a flag in the ground.

[00:19:22] I'm now moving in, I'm putting another flag on the ground.

[00:19:24] I put another flag in the ground and so on.

[00:19:26] And now I'm building an effective book of business, effective

[00:19:29] funnel strategy across multiple with it, whether it's geography or vertical

[00:19:34] businesses with the tech giant.

[00:19:36] And those are some of the things you need to think about from

[00:19:37] a strategy perspective.

[00:19:39] There's a lot of tooling and tactics that go along with these things,

[00:19:42] but you got to do that.

[00:19:43] And then you also need to be listening intuitively to what's going on.

[00:19:47] Because when you're working with these big organizations, these, you

[00:19:50] know, the largest organizations in the, in the, in the world, they're

[00:19:54] going to change their strategy.

[00:19:55] They're going to change their approach a year and a half ago.

[00:19:58] Nobody was talking about AI right now.

[00:19:59] AI is the thing.

[00:20:01] So you need to also need to, you might, you might've been successful

[00:20:03] here for a while doing this one thing or doing this one thing effectively.

[00:20:07] And now I've got to pivot my business if I want to stay

[00:20:10] current, relevant and successful.

[00:20:13] Vince, what's your thought?

[00:20:14] You know, we talk a lot on this show about the importance of personal brand

[00:20:18] building thought leadership, using podcasts, using content, all of that

[00:20:23] to really elevate yourself above the noise.

[00:20:26] Do you think that's a really good strategy as well for a partner?

[00:20:29] You know, Brandon, we've, we've talked to some partners that, I

[00:20:32] don't know, there was some idea that I don't, that's, I don't need to

[00:20:34] worry about that or whatever, but it seems like what you're saying is

[00:20:38] I got to elevate above the noise.

[00:20:39] Yeah.

[00:20:40] Be that shiny quarter.

[00:20:42] Well, if it wasn't, I wouldn't be getting so many requests to be on

[00:20:44] my podcast from all these partners, right?

[00:20:46] They all want, they all want to elevate their brand.

[00:20:48] And they all want to come on my podcast.

[00:20:50] Uh, we're very deliberate about who gets on, you know, I only have

[00:20:54] the top executives from the tech giants, the top award winning partners

[00:20:58] within the tech industry on the podcast.

[00:21:00] But yeah, I think they effectively look at this.

[00:21:03] This strategy is not just direct selling.

[00:21:05] It's it's you want to build your brand with the tech giant.

[00:21:08] You want to build it with other partners because it's not just you out there.

[00:21:11] It's not just you and Microsoft out there.

[00:21:13] It's you and Microsoft in a whole ecosystem of organizations.

[00:21:17] And if you're selling into a market and we're, Carson's getting his name

[00:21:20] mentioned an awful lot for not being on this, but Carson's selling in the

[00:21:23] mid market, the customer is not necessarily buying directly from a

[00:21:27] direct seller.

[00:21:28] They might be buying through a reseller.

[00:21:30] In fact, their best relationship might be with a CDW or an insight or an

[00:21:35] SHI that they're buying all their software and maybe they're buying their

[00:21:38] Microsoft licenses or their Google, Google cloud licenses from.

[00:21:42] And so effectively building those relationships all the way down

[00:21:45] market being known every, every tactic and every strategy you talk

[00:21:52] about on this show applies to both partners as well as sellers selling

[00:21:56] into a client.

[00:21:57] Absolutely.

[00:21:59] Yeah, it seems that that we can whittle it all down for it.

[00:22:04] Companies, whether they're there in the partner ecosystem or not of that,

[00:22:08] just elevating reputation, standing out from the sea of sameness and being

[00:22:14] known for something different.

[00:22:17] And it seems like in those partners with the big tech, it's even more

[00:22:21] important because the sellers, the Microsoft sellers, they've got so many

[00:22:28] partners coming at them with their hands out going, give me leads, give

[00:22:31] me leads, give me leads.

[00:22:33] It seems like it's almost more important for them to have that

[00:22:36] niche, have that something that stands out.

[00:22:40] Am I hearing that correctly?

[00:22:42] Is it, does it seem like it's even more important for them than just

[00:22:46] directs?

[00:22:47] Absolutely.

[00:22:47] And it's also following the rules, right?

[00:22:49] Like, so right now you need to have a transactable offer in the

[00:22:52] marketplace, right?

[00:22:53] To get my attention.

[00:22:54] You need to put all of your assets in Microsoft's partner center

[00:22:57] so I can look and see what you're doing, what your value proposition,

[00:23:01] where you've been successful.

[00:23:02] I could look at all your metrics.

[00:23:04] So again, you need to do all of those things effectively, Brandon,

[00:23:07] in order to be effective.

[00:23:09] So, hey, what do you think, Vince, you mentioned AI a second ago,

[00:23:13] and I have a couple of questions related to that.

[00:23:15] Yeah.

[00:23:16] Do you see...

[00:23:17] Of course you do.

[00:23:18] Of course I do.

[00:23:19] Yes.

[00:23:19] We could do a show on this, I think.

[00:23:22] But the...

[00:23:23] I'm happy to come back.

[00:23:25] Do you see the importance...

[00:23:28] Do you see AI really starting to become an important thing in the

[00:23:32] enterprise versus a toy or a novelty, right?

[00:23:36] Which I think it's sort of been up to this point or whatever.

[00:23:40] And then secondly, do you see AI, the use of AI really impacting how

[00:23:44] the partner operates and does it help make the partner more efficiency?

[00:23:48] Does it provide a better experience overall?

[00:23:51] I mean, I would think the AI and the ability to use that and be able

[00:23:54] to help manage this ecosystem concept could really be a big, big,

[00:23:59] big change for some of these players.

[00:24:01] Yeah.

[00:24:01] I say we were in the early days the same way we were in the

[00:24:04] early days of the internet back in the late 90s, early aughts.

[00:24:09] In that there was maybe a leaning in on overhype.

[00:24:12] We went through an overhype moment, but absolutely organizations are

[00:24:18] embedding AI into...

[00:24:19] Well, ISVs are embedding AI into their technology.

[00:24:23] Sure.

[00:24:23] It's no longer...

[00:24:24] If you don't have AI somewhere in your software, your SaaS stack,

[00:24:28] you're probably missing out or you're probably thinking about doing

[00:24:31] it if you haven't done it already.

[00:24:32] Microsoft has done a very effective job here.

[00:24:35] Now I...

[00:24:36] We could talk about how Microsoft partnered.

[00:24:38] Like Microsoft didn't build OpenAI, right?

[00:24:40] But they partnered with Sam Altman five years ago and it was

[00:24:44] a master play by Satya.

[00:24:46] And then what he also did even more because Google was sitting

[00:24:49] on a bunch of assets all this time, just hadn't brought them to life.

[00:24:54] They were first to market.

[00:24:56] Microsoft said...

[00:24:57] Satya said we're going to lean in hard.

[00:24:59] So last February, after the buzz was going on, they started

[00:25:04] infusing AI and OpenAI into everything.

[00:25:07] And they had the collaboration stack, which is like, that's

[00:25:09] the perfect place to do it, right?

[00:25:11] Because everything we live in Outlook, we live in all of these

[00:25:15] tools, calendar, calendaring and Teams and all these other technologies.

[00:25:19] They started layering it all into the op and they started

[00:25:22] calling everything Co-Pilot.

[00:25:24] And of course their stock went from like 200 to $400 a share,

[00:25:27] like almost overnight.

[00:25:29] And they're the highest valuation of any company in tech right now.

[00:25:32] So it says that they're doing it right.

[00:25:34] They also, what started happening for Microsoft, at least the

[00:25:37] conversations I was having with a lot of executives is that they were

[00:25:41] getting, they were becoming relevant again.

[00:25:43] They were being brought into the C-suite again, who had been

[00:25:46] predominantly AWS at that point because of what they were doing with AI.

[00:25:51] And organizations have been, they've been working on with a lot of these

[00:25:54] top organizations to say, how do I effectively deploy this?

[00:25:59] How do I modernize my business processes?

[00:26:01] How do I think about the future and get the efficiencies and the

[00:26:04] effectiveness of AI into my business?

[00:26:07] Now, has it been overhyped in many respects?

[00:26:09] Yeah.

[00:26:10] Can OpenAI feel like a toy at times?

[00:26:13] But it's, it's evolving too.

[00:26:15] In fact, they just announced OpenAI 4.0, zero for Omni this week.

[00:26:23] Not zero, oh, Omni and the tools are getting better and better.

[00:26:29] I think the Omni piece will be when it all gets together,

[00:26:32] we'll be game changing and talk about, I mean, think about from

[00:26:35] a partner perspective, just the whole thing with the voice and the,

[00:26:39] and the multimodal.

[00:26:40] And I mean, those are things that we have from a technology

[00:26:44] perspective have never thought about the application and use case of that.

[00:26:48] Right.

[00:26:48] It's crazy.

[00:26:49] It's crazy good.

[00:26:50] Wide open, I would think talk about green field for a partner opportunity.

[00:26:54] It seems, it seems that way to me in a way to differentiate

[00:26:57] and again, rise above the crowd.

[00:26:59] Yeah.

[00:27:00] So I think it is getting infused.

[00:27:02] It tends to be over the word, the word that everything gets over,

[00:27:07] overused the same way when we first started talking about the web

[00:27:09] and the internet, and then we had a little, so I think you're going

[00:27:12] to see this, uh, I think you saw a little bit of that peak, but I

[00:27:15] think you're going to start to see more adoption and infusion into,

[00:27:19] into mainstream.

[00:27:20] And as that happens, it's, it's the technology adoption curve, right?

[00:27:23] We're going to, we're going to cross the chasm with AI and then

[00:27:26] it's going to be infused in our lives in a bigger and bigger way over time.

[00:27:30] So, and I'll have one last question, Brandon, and then I'll shut up.

[00:27:34] I'm so intrigued on some of this is, you know, I most of it, and again,

[00:27:38] my background working with partners, right?

[00:27:40] Partners or business model is predominantly services, right?

[00:27:43] So I'm, I'm trying to keep people, you know, bodies moving

[00:27:46] people off the bench, all that.

[00:27:48] Do you see AI changing that a bit from a partner?

[00:27:51] So I'm not so service oriented and I have other more higher

[00:27:54] margin forms of income over time that isn't just, you know, bodies.

[00:27:58] Yeah.

[00:27:59] I, I think that you can productize a lot of what you do today.

[00:28:03] I would say two things.

[00:28:04] I would say that there's a lot of services work for those

[00:28:08] organizations just to deploy the technology today.

[00:28:11] That's so it's all new technology.

[00:28:13] It's all it's got it, whether it's getting layered in, there's great

[00:28:16] opportunities and by the way, the organizations like Microsoft are paying,

[00:28:20] they're paying a premium now because they want to, they want to accelerate that.

[00:28:24] Right?

[00:28:24] So they're paying a premium to these organizations, these SIs to do that.

[00:28:28] I've also seen SIs.

[00:28:29] I have one person on my podcast, Dexter Hardy, who was an SI and he became a

[00:28:35] product company because he was able to take some of the technology that he

[00:28:38] developed or some of the tools that he had developed and make them

[00:28:41] available to other organizations.

[00:28:44] And he's now he's become an ISV.

[00:28:46] He's effectively moved his business from being an SI to being an ISV.

[00:28:49] And you can buy his tools on the marketplace, by the way, he sells digitally.

[00:28:53] He did.

[00:28:55] He helped, he helped, he helps these organizations go to from AWS to

[00:28:59] Azure or to Kubernetes or all these other technology shifts and he's

[00:29:03] automated the process.

[00:29:04] So to your point, if you're thinking creatively and intuitively, you can do

[00:29:09] things like that, Tom, now, especially with AI, it becomes a lot easier to do.

[00:29:12] Yeah.

[00:29:13] Completely agree.

[00:29:14] Yeah.

[00:29:14] And I would imagine those, those pivots help them niche, but also

[00:29:21] help them tell a much better story to the tech giant sellers who they need

[00:29:25] to go partner with and really be able to raise our hand and stand out.

[00:29:30] Yeah.

[00:29:31] It in a big way, in a big way.

[00:29:32] I have one organization that I partner up with, uh, that's doing

[00:29:36] it in the legal profession.

[00:29:39] They've created a set of AI tools that they layer on top of legal

[00:29:42] software now, and they become a darling to Microsoft.

[00:29:45] Microsoft just promoted them to a higher level of global managed status.

[00:29:50] And they were a little company, but they created a new set of tools and

[00:29:53] capabilities that are moving the needle for them in a big way.

[00:29:56] Wow.

[00:29:57] Yeah.

[00:29:58] Wow.

[00:30:01] So I guess, I guess as we wrap up here, our kind of rapid show here today.

[00:30:06] Um, let me see if I can summarize a bit what I'm hearing you say, Vince,

[00:30:10] cause I think there's some really, really key points here that all come

[00:30:13] together as if I'm a partner or I'm a Microsoft partner in particular,

[00:30:17] because we're talking about that a lot today, the things I should be thinking

[00:30:21] about, maybe not in any particular order, but really make sure I understand

[00:30:25] what I bring to the table.

[00:30:26] My specialty, my niche, my, my, my USP unique cert, you know, my

[00:30:30] new unique proposition that I'm bringing into the thing, really look

[00:30:35] at, make sure I understand my ecosystem, like really understand the

[00:30:39] ecosystem and the party that I'm involved in the players, the

[00:30:42] relationships, all of that, and then work to build that and put that in there.

[00:30:46] Yeah.

[00:30:47] Elevate my personal brand, right?

[00:30:49] Then use that to elevate my personal brand.

[00:30:52] And then maybe a fourth thing would be just what we touched on is think

[00:30:55] in the future and say, how could I potentially optimize my business, build

[00:31:00] out of their higher margin models, do things that are there that are

[00:31:02] just not just services.

[00:31:04] Is that kind of the playbook that I'm hearing you?

[00:31:07] I think it's, yeah, I think it's a, it's certainly a

[00:31:10] good part of the playbook, right?

[00:31:11] And I think there's, there's a little bit more to it, but I do

[00:31:14] if we're going through the lens of that service provider, absolutely.

[00:31:17] That's the playbook for sure.

[00:31:19] Yeah.

[00:31:19] And there's a ton of devil's devil in the details there, right?

[00:31:22] But it's, but to me, it seems like if I want to be that partner

[00:31:25] of the future, those are some of the key things I'm hearing you

[00:31:27] say you need to be thinking about.

[00:31:29] If you're going to do that.

[00:31:30] Yep.

[00:31:31] Good summary time.

[00:31:32] Awesome.

[00:31:34] Vince, you have your community, you have an event.

[00:31:38] I know it's sold out, but then you have another event coming up in the fall.

[00:31:42] So why don't you take a few minutes and go ahead and share with everybody

[00:31:45] some of those, and then let everybody know how they could connect with you.

[00:31:49] I appreciate that.

[00:31:50] Yeah.

[00:31:50] So even though the event is sold out, it's a small room.

[00:31:54] You've been in the room, Brandon.

[00:31:55] So, you know, it's only seats like 45 people.

[00:31:58] We've got the fire code and the Marshall is going to be standing coming out.

[00:32:01] I think if we go beyond that, we are going to digitally

[00:32:04] stream the event though.

[00:32:05] So we're, we're going to have this dynamic group of leaders.

[00:32:08] I mean, I've got some really big thought leaders in the room, both

[00:32:11] Microsoft and executives from EY and tackle IO and aft point, a bunch of

[00:32:16] other organizations that have gotten it right and really have built

[00:32:19] really successful business models.

[00:32:21] We're going to live stream the entire day.

[00:32:23] We've got this really modern studio.

[00:32:25] It's got a quarter million dollar digital wall and it's,

[00:32:28] it's going to be happening.

[00:32:29] So you can come on, go on, go on ultimate guide to partnering.com

[00:32:33] events section, you can sign up for the digital content.

[00:32:36] You can watch it all for free.

[00:32:38] And then we're building out this community and we're using

[00:32:40] this as an impetus to like, we're providing a lot of this content for

[00:32:44] free now because we want people to become members of our new community.

[00:32:47] Ultimate partner experience.

[00:32:49] Uh, Tom, this is where the, the answers to those questions for all

[00:32:53] the different types of partners are going to be held because I've got

[00:32:57] a group of ambassadors that are expert in each of the areas and they're

[00:33:01] coming into the room and, uh, and there'll be hopefully there's going to

[00:33:04] be some LinkedIn ambassadors at some point in this conversation, but some

[00:33:08] of these ambassadors are helping to drive the discourse and know how

[00:33:11] to effectively co-sell.

[00:33:13] So if you're a partner and you want to learn more, come join our

[00:33:16] community, it's going to be the place.

[00:33:19] It's, it's the community.

[00:33:20] I didn't see when I left Microsoft, like I didn't see the one

[00:33:22] place where I can go to, to learn how to effectively partner

[00:33:26] and co-sell and work effectively with the tech giants like Microsoft.

[00:33:29] So, uh, come to, come to ultimate part.

[00:33:31] It's called the ultimate partner.com or the ultimate guide to partnering.com.

[00:33:36] You could listen to our podcasts on that page.

[00:33:39] You can follow us along.

[00:33:40] We have a YouTube channel.

[00:33:41] We were on every podcast platform.

[00:33:43] We're on Apple and Spotify and all, all the other podcast players.

[00:33:48] Uh, we're one of the top ranked podcasts and we've been, we've

[00:33:51] been ranked by Apple before in the top two 50 in business tech.

[00:33:55] And, uh, we've been featured in podcast magazine and a few other places.

[00:33:58] So I'm really proud of the level of, uh, leaders that come to come

[00:34:03] to ultimate partner, the ultimate guide to partnering.

[00:34:05] So I'd love to have people come join the event next week.

[00:34:07] It's Thursday.

[00:34:08] It's the 30th of May, of May.

[00:34:11] Uh, it's going to be, it's going to start at 10 in the morning.

[00:34:13] It's going to run until about five o'clock again, an

[00:34:15] incredible amount of content.

[00:34:18] And then if you join our community, we're going to put all those up,

[00:34:21] all the content from the event.

[00:34:23] We're going to, we're going to parse it out.

[00:34:24] Like we've done for our other events that we did.

[00:34:26] We'll put it there as well.

[00:34:28] And then we'll, we'll share more.

[00:34:29] We're going to have another big event like we did last year

[00:34:31] in Dallas, uh, in the fall.

[00:34:33] And I'll have more to share there.

[00:34:34] Maybe for the next time I come back on, we could talk about the details,

[00:34:38] but come next week, I'd love to have everybody join us.

[00:34:41] It certainly sounds like what you're doing there is so needed right now

[00:34:44] based on everything that's coming together, all the changes and all of

[00:34:47] that, having a place to go to be not only learning from you, but

[00:34:51] learning from others and the collaboration I think is very, very timely.

[00:34:56] Makes it seems like it makes a lot of sense.

[00:34:58] Yeah.

[00:34:59] And I think just, just from my perspective on that, you're, you're

[00:35:02] talking about it being very timely.

[00:35:04] I want to emphasize that with people.

[00:35:05] I don't, I don't think a lot of these companies realize how quickly things

[00:35:08] are changing in front of them.

[00:35:10] Um, and, and those partner relationships and really focusing

[00:35:16] that, that, that niche, that focus the, the relationships they need

[00:35:20] to develop, I think it's up to this point, I think a lot of companies

[00:35:24] have been somewhat successful despite their effort because it was a little

[00:35:29] haphazard, um, from some of the conversations I have.

[00:35:32] And I think it's even more important now to really get that focused with

[00:35:36] what is our go-to-market specifically with the big tech partnerships?

[00:35:42] Yeah.

[00:35:42] I mean, we're still having some economic headwinds, right?

[00:35:44] Uh, SAS, a lot of SAS companies are still struggling through this year.

[00:35:48] And, uh, we have an election, we have some uncertainty to, to, uh,

[00:35:52] regional wars and election this year.

[00:35:55] So being able to tap into that partner strategy and be more effective.

[00:36:02] Well, thank you again, Vince.

[00:36:03] Great insights.

[00:36:04] Um, Brandon, you want to wrap this up?

[00:36:07] Sure.

[00:36:08] Everybody.

[00:36:08] Thank you so much for joining us on episode 87 of Mastering Modern Selling.

[00:36:14] We really appreciate you.

[00:36:15] Uh, wherever you're watching this podcast, there's the notes.

[00:36:18] You'll see links.

[00:36:20] Um, we'd love if you're finding value on the show, we'd really

[00:36:23] appreciate the, uh, the reviews, the five-star reviews and help us there as well.

[00:36:28] So everybody will see you next time.

[00:36:30] And, uh, we'll see you next time on Mastering Modern Selling.

[00:36:33] I almost said Carson's line.

[00:36:35] He's not even here.

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[00:36:38] We've gotten all kinds of airplay.

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