MMS #116 - Driving Profitable Change: Sales Leadership with Don Barden

[00:00:01] Welcome to Mastering Modern Selling, relationships, social and AI in the buyer-centric age. Join host Brandon Lee, founder of Fistbump, alongside Microsoft's number one social seller Carson V Heady and Tom Burton, author of The Revenue Zone and co-founder of LeadSmart, as we explore the strategies and stories behind successful executives and sales professionals.

[00:00:24] Dive into business growth, personal development, and the pursuit of excellence with industry leaders. Whether you're a seasoned executive or an aspiring leader, this podcast is your backstage pass to today's business landscape. This is Mastering Modern Selling, brought to you by Fistbump.

[00:00:48] Okay, welcome back. Episode number 116, Mastering Modern Selling. Tom Burton here this week with Brandon. Carson is traveling this week. Brandon, are you going to see Carson?

[00:01:00] I think he's in your neighborhood this week. Is he? I haven't heard from him. Oh yeah. I don't know. If he's here, he didn't let me know. He said he was going to be out by the airport and he was expecting you today for lunch. Well, that's all news for me. I better text the guy. All right. Maybe we can come on and set the record straight anyway. So we'll try and do our best without Carson, but another great guest today, Don Barden. Welcome. Hey guys, thank you for having me. Thank you for all the work you're doing. I love your show. I've listened to all of it. I love what you're doing with Fistbump. And

[00:01:30] you know, just your, you're bringing awareness to people about what's happening in the world. I love it and I'm honored to be here and I'm just grateful. So thank you for having me.

[00:01:38] Thank you. I think we're gonna have some interesting conversation. Hey, Brandon, before we get into the conversation with Don, first of all, we want to thank Fistbump again for their sponsorship, but anything happening, exciting coming up with Fistbump webinars?

[00:01:55] Anything?

[00:01:57] Yeah, we actually, I'm, I'm co-hosting a webinar on Thursday with Liz Hyman, who was a guest of ours. I don't know, two, three weeks, four weeks ago. I can't remember any now. We had Alice on about two months ago and Liz about a month ago. And yeah, Liz, Liz has a, you know, I think it's, it's really timely. You know, we love to bring webinars to our audience. It's going to help them with what's going on. And she has a webinar that I'm going to go to.

[00:02:24] Go through with her. It's from chaos to closes and her whole premise is so many sales teams live in chaos and CEOs or leadership. They don't have good vision as to what's going on.

[00:02:36] Because a lot of times it's a few good salespeople that have been doing this for a long time and they just kind of do their thing behind the scenes. But as she says, 20, 80% of sales teams are at least 25% off on their forecast.

[00:02:54] And when she told me that I'm like, okay, that sounds right. About right. She goes, so that means a company that that's projected to do 30 million in revenue, they could do 36 million or they could do 20 million.

[00:03:08] And they don't really know where they're going to land. And that's what she solves from chaos to closes. So we do that on Thursday and Alec, maybe we can get that put into the.

[00:03:22] As in tomorrow. That's tomorrow.

[00:03:24] As in tomorrow. Yes. Today would be Wednesday, the day of our show.

[00:03:27] Okay. All right. That sounds like a good, good episode or a good, good webinar.

[00:03:32] Yeah. All right. So we'll get the link there. All right. So, and I want to welcome Bob. I warn you, Don, Bob's going to come at you probably with some good questions and comments.

[00:03:45] Aloha, Bob. I see you said Aloha. Hawaiian or just trying to be cool.

[00:03:50] He's lived there. In fact, Bob, you better show up tomorrow for Liz because Liz is, you know, spent most of her life in Kona.

[00:03:57] As well.

[00:03:58] That's great. I just spent, I just got back from Hawaii. I did nine lectures in three days and I was in Honolulu and it was one of my favorite places in the world.

[00:04:06] So thank you, Bob, for joining us.

[00:04:08] So, so Don, tell us a little bit about you, your background, and then we're going to kind of talk, I think, talk about some pretty unique sales strategies based on some of your experience and, and so forth and how they align to this modern selling world.

[00:04:22] Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And thanks. And, and again, I just love what you guys are doing. So keep it up, man. Thank you.

[00:04:27] I really appreciate it. So bottom line, my life's somewhere between Forrest Gump and Jason Bourne, but I always tell people it's more on the Forrest Gump side.

[00:04:35] So it's not as exciting as it could be sometimes, but yeah, I, I've lived my life in sales and in strategy and I just love it.

[00:04:43] I wake up every day and run to work the happiest guy in the world because when you're really in sales and you're really doing something great, there's a lot of things about your career that's different from everybody else's.

[00:04:52] And I learned that a long time ago. Number one, you control your schedule, which is great. Number two, you control your income, which is great.

[00:04:59] And number three, you control the people that are in your lives. You know, you get to meet new friends every day and go out there and meet an impact on the world.

[00:05:06] So when I stumbled into the sales and realized that I did have some of the wiring that was necessary, but it's a skill just like anything else.

[00:05:14] You know, you can be six foot 10 and say, oh, that guy could play basketball. Yeah. Well, if you can't dribble, you're not going to do very well. Right.

[00:05:19] So I had these things that I knew were sort of, you know, tools, skills, inherited traits that I thought would make it good for me, but I had no idea what I was doing.

[00:05:29] So I just started this career and I started small and it worked its way up. I spent about 25 years on Wall Street.

[00:05:36] I was a top performer there and did really well in institutional type sales.

[00:05:41] So B2C type work, which involved billions and billions of dollars, involved committees and involved multinationals.

[00:05:47] And honestly, the more complex it got, the more I realized I was better suited for it.

[00:05:53] So we talk about chaos. Oh, man, that's my jam. I love chaos.

[00:05:57] I love it when everything is out there and the people are screaming out for simplicity.

[00:06:03] And so I've always, as a little boy, I've been able to simplify the complex and just look at the puzzle pieces and figure out how maybe a couple of these will fit together.

[00:06:12] So it was a sort of a combination of a lot of things.

[00:06:15] Inherently, what I was wired to do, meaning with opportunity, an understanding that I needed skills.

[00:06:21] It doesn't just happen. You've got to get out there and do it and the ability to simplify the complex.

[00:06:25] So I had a great run on Wall Street.

[00:06:28] I decided that academia was the best way for me to survive, that part of these skills meant that I had to go back and learn a whole lot of stuff.

[00:06:37] So I started working on some things, finished out my doctorate.

[00:06:40] But I really did that for not only just the credentialing and the credibility, but the knowledge of how people interact and what they do.

[00:06:47] So we could go out there and serve more people, because that's really what sales is.

[00:06:51] It's about the transfer of value so you can make somebody's life better than it is today.

[00:06:55] And if you've got the product, the idea, the concept that they can use, then what an honorable profession.

[00:07:02] In fact, I've always thought that sales is probably the most honorable profession out there.

[00:07:06] And the reason why is because nothing in history, I mean nothing, nothing in history ever happened, good or bad, unless somebody sold somebody something.

[00:07:16] You know, whether it be an idea like the pharaohs of Egypt.

[00:07:19] Hey, we got this great idea.

[00:07:20] We're going to build a killer tombstone and they're going to be there for 5,000 years.

[00:07:24] You know, it's the pyramids.

[00:07:26] Somebody was sold that idea, right?

[00:07:28] To today where we have, you know, an incredible country we live in here in the United States and this concept of independence and freedom.

[00:07:35] And I don't know, nothing happens unless somebody's willing to raise their hand and say, I have an idea.

[00:07:41] Let me share it with you.

[00:07:42] Would you like to engage?

[00:07:43] And sometimes I've got some skills or you've got some skills or something where we can all collaborate and work together.

[00:07:49] So my career has gone from nothing to just, hey, I think I get this, to right place, right time.

[00:07:55] That's the Forrest Gump thing, to academia.

[00:07:58] And it's been a really good ride.

[00:08:01] And I enjoy every bit of it.

[00:08:03] What kind of deals were you doing on Wall Street?

[00:08:05] Like, you know, in the 25 years, what were the, what did these deals look like and how did they come together?

[00:08:11] Yeah, it started out.

[00:08:13] And again, you're going back 35 years maybe.

[00:08:16] It started out in institutional finance.

[00:08:18] And it could be anything from, we worked on designing the EU's credibility, credibility, meaning their ability to sustain credit, you know, and do things to big institutions, retirement plans, how they finance long-term liabilities.

[00:08:32] It was really complex economic and financial deals.

[00:08:36] But again, going back to my skill set, I was able to take those complexities and simplify it so people could understand.

[00:08:44] And that's really important, I think, for everybody to know.

[00:08:47] And I tell salespeople this all the time.

[00:08:50] Don't fall in love with yourself.

[00:08:51] Fall in love with what you can do with a client, which means impress the client, not yourself.

[00:08:56] And I was telling somebody the other day, I had the pleasure 30-something years ago of working with the largest dairy farmers in Italy.

[00:09:01] Man, let me tell you, I didn't know Italy did dairy like that, but they did.

[00:09:05] And those folks can tell you everything they can about cows and milk and protein and everything else.

[00:09:10] But when you start talking about, you know, the concepts around institutional finance, that's not their jam.

[00:09:15] So they're going to somebody who's an expert in it that they really, really want to trust.

[00:09:20] And they say, hey, can you help me get there faster?

[00:09:23] What can you do?

[00:09:24] And Dan Sullivan talks about this all the time in his great book called Who Not How.

[00:09:28] Great leaders don't need to know how to do things.

[00:09:31] They need to know who knows how to do something.

[00:09:33] And if you engage that who, then that who becomes your hero because they can do something that'll get you there faster.

[00:09:41] And that's what I tell people all the time in sales.

[00:09:43] You have a chance to be somebody's hero because you can help them with your expertise get to where they want to go faster.

[00:09:49] Don't pretend like you know anything about dairy.

[00:09:51] You don't.

[00:09:51] I just know it's milk.

[00:09:52] I don't know all that stuff, but I know what I know and I know they need this.

[00:09:57] And if I can collaborate with them, I can help them get on their mission faster, which means I'm their hero.

[00:10:02] So sales is about your willingness to be good at what you do.

[00:10:06] Great at what you do, actually.

[00:10:08] So you can be somebody else's hero so they can be great at what they do.

[00:10:11] And when you get that dance going, you kind of figure it out.

[00:10:14] And being on Wall Street and working for the firms that I was, I got to travel all over the world and meet.

[00:10:20] Literally, I think I've been around the world seven or eight times.

[00:10:23] I've been in 196 countries.

[00:10:24] I've probably been in over 100 of them.

[00:10:26] And one thing I've learned is everybody's the same.

[00:10:29] Everybody's the same.

[00:10:30] Everybody just wants to get up, take care of their family, believe in a better tomorrow, run their business, take care of their employees, do great things.

[00:10:37] It doesn't matter what language you speak, but they're doing their thing.

[00:10:40] And if you can contribute to that, then you've done something special, too.

[00:10:45] And again, that's why it's so honorable.

[00:10:46] You have the opportunity to do something good, to be relevant for somebody else.

[00:10:52] And I think that that's the word that I tell people all the time.

[00:10:54] The future of sales is relevance.

[00:10:56] Not just are you slinging product and price.

[00:10:59] Where are you relevant?

[00:11:00] And I think we figured that out a long time ago.

[00:11:02] So it's been fun.

[00:11:03] But the short answer to your question, institutional finance.

[00:11:06] I feel like that scene in Animal House, like where he's got everybody all riled up and ready to go, like running out.

[00:11:13] Like, I'm ready to go charge a hill.

[00:11:15] Yeah, let's do this.

[00:11:17] Yeah.

[00:11:17] Let's figure it up.

[00:11:18] Yeah.

[00:11:19] You know, it's funny.

[00:11:21] So in a previous life, I had had a software company and we built software for complex commercial real estate deals.

[00:11:28] So real estate deals, you may be aware, Don, can get very, very complicated when there's multiple investors and money and so forth.

[00:11:36] And our software, it was hard to model those things on Excel.

[00:11:39] So our software helped them model these real estate deals.

[00:11:43] And I sold the company to Intuit in 2008, right before the real estate crisis.

[00:11:48] Yeah.

[00:11:49] And then what I had to go do, I went to Intuit for a year, a year and a half.

[00:11:53] My job was to go out to these big financial institutions, JP Morgan, you know, Morgan Stanley, all throughout these things,

[00:12:00] and help them figure out how screwed they were on their real estate deals that they had put together prior to the crisis.

[00:12:07] But the reason I'm bringing this up is we had to take very complex situations, whether they like to see them or not,

[00:12:17] and make it very simple for them to do.

[00:12:20] And I think we're in a world right now, and Brandon, definitely, I think you would agree with this.

[00:12:26] Because the things that we're selling are not, whether it's technology or AI or whatever, or even, you know, what you're doing with Fistbump and LinkedIn.

[00:12:35] And people don't always understand all this stuff.

[00:12:38] Right.

[00:12:38] Right.

[00:12:39] They don't.

[00:12:39] It's complex.

[00:12:40] It's confusing or whatever.

[00:12:41] And they're constantly looking for that way to get things simpler and understandable, not just for themselves, but across the organization.

[00:12:50] Oh, 100%.

[00:12:51] Right.

[00:12:51] And you know, it's interesting, too, to keep going on that theme.

[00:12:55] We're in the first, we're in a situation economically and in consumer demand, where the consumer, the buyer of your product,

[00:13:01] is now in a position where they have more choices than ever.

[00:13:05] And those choices are all good.

[00:13:07] So think about that.

[00:13:08] Most buyers are in a position where if they just narrow it down to three or four, they can't make a bad decision.

[00:13:14] So in sales, you've got to figure out, okay, if they can't make a bad decision, how do I become that decision that rises to the top?

[00:13:22] How do I become that connection point?

[00:13:24] How do I become relevant to them?

[00:13:27] Because, I mean, think about how awesome that is for a buyer.

[00:13:29] If you can't make a bad decision, yeah, you know, you can go for it.

[00:13:34] But I think the future sales is going to be in that relevance and how you get out there and do it.

[00:13:38] So what you just said is brilliant.

[00:13:40] It's great.

[00:13:41] Can we park on that for a second?

[00:13:43] I'm glad you're doing that, Brandon.

[00:13:45] Go ahead.

[00:13:45] Yeah.

[00:13:46] So let's unpack that a little bit.

[00:13:48] So buyers can't make a bad decision.

[00:13:52] Three or four or five options, all equally good.

[00:13:57] Now, let's put ourselves in the sales leader, the leader of a company.

[00:14:02] What did they do?

[00:14:03] How did they stand out?

[00:14:05] I think you use a good words.

[00:14:08] And now I lost the word you use.

[00:14:09] But how do they stand out?

[00:14:11] How did they get that conversation?

[00:14:14] How did they be different than the other four or five buyers?

[00:14:18] Right.

[00:14:18] Or the other four or five sellers?

[00:14:20] Yeah, relevant, I think might be the word.

[00:14:22] But what I tell people all the time is we're here to help our clients grow their business, even if it's not with us.

[00:14:29] And that takes a lot to say, because what you're saying really is I know you've got choices.

[00:14:35] I know there's some good choices out there.

[00:14:37] Coke or Pepsi, Red Bull or Monster, whatever.

[00:14:39] You know, whatever floats your boat.

[00:14:40] They're all fine.

[00:14:40] They'll get you there.

[00:14:41] Right.

[00:14:42] So how do we grow?

[00:14:44] Well, how do we become relevant?

[00:14:45] You don't become relevant by slinging product and price and knowing that whatever sticks they just buy.

[00:14:51] It works for hamburgers, you know, but it doesn't work for a whole lot of other things, especially in complex sales.

[00:14:56] So if you approach the client like, look, I'm a good steward here, but I really want to serve you.

[00:15:03] And I know the person that serves you is a person that understands you, which means that you're seen and you're heard.

[00:15:10] So if the client feels seen, heard and understood, then they feel valued.

[00:15:14] If they feel valued by you, then they'll move mountains to continue to work with you.

[00:15:19] But that first step in value is to understand that your only job is to be so relevant that you're going to help them grow their business, even if it's not with you.

[00:15:29] And what happens is the law of reciprocation, just the universe itself will give you so much opportunity.

[00:15:34] If you present it that way, it's beyond what you can calculate.

[00:15:38] If you go out there thinking, oh, I got the best product ever.

[00:15:41] Let me know how that's going to work for you.

[00:15:43] That's not going to last very long.

[00:15:44] Or we got great pricing or we're competitive pricing.

[00:15:47] All right, great.

[00:15:48] You're the same as everybody else.

[00:15:49] Where are you relevant?

[00:15:51] Well, you're relevant when you commit to being a co-conspirator in your client's success.

[00:15:57] And that might mean that you're sitting there with a product idea and you've got a great solution and they ask you about something else.

[00:16:04] And you might need to use your wisdom to redirect them, but that's rare.

[00:16:08] What people want is connect with you because they feel seen, heard, and understood by you, which means they feel valued by you, which means you are their who, which means you're their hero.

[00:16:19] And they're going to do it.

[00:16:20] So that's what separates you in a world of equal choice.

[00:16:22] It's just your ability to lean in and help that client feel seen, heard, and understood.

[00:16:28] Man, if you do that, you can't turn it off.

[00:16:32] I mean, it's just going to take off.

[00:16:33] You sling price and product, you're going to be in there with everybody else.

[00:16:36] You know, so you got to be relevant.

[00:16:39] So, Don, how do companies do that at a prospecting stage?

[00:16:44] Like I talk to a lot of leaders and, you know, I'll ask them things.

[00:16:49] They'll say things like, oh, you know, we want to be seen as trusted advisors.

[00:16:54] Great.

[00:16:55] How do you, when, when, and how do you give trusted advice?

[00:16:59] Oh, well, when we're in meetings with them, like, okay, great.

[00:17:02] What about before you get the meeting?

[00:17:04] Like you've got to be seen as a trusted advisor.

[00:17:07] This is kind of what I'm hearing you say.

[00:17:09] You got to be seen as that trusted advisor in order to get the meeting.

[00:17:13] But your strategy right now is once we get the meeting, we get to tell them all these things.

[00:17:19] Yeah.

[00:17:20] Yeah.

[00:17:20] How do you get the meeting?

[00:17:21] You get the meeting by thinking differently.

[00:17:23] And I tell people this all the time.

[00:17:25] You've got to follow me on this.

[00:17:27] You got to change the way you think about how you think about the way that you think about your thinking.

[00:17:31] Which means, I know, I know.

[00:17:34] You got to change the way you think about how you think about the way that you think about your thinking.

[00:17:42] In other words, if you're thinking, if you're thinking my product's the best and I'm going to go out there and everybody's going to buy it.

[00:17:48] Let's consider thinking differently about how you think about that.

[00:17:52] You know, don't change your mind.

[00:17:54] Yeah, yeah, it's great.

[00:17:54] I got a great product and I can do a lot of great with this stuff with this.

[00:17:58] That's great.

[00:17:58] Don't change with that.

[00:17:59] Keep that going.

[00:18:00] But what are you doing when it comes to your thinking about how that's relevant to the buyer?

[00:18:06] What is it that they're looking for?

[00:18:07] If you really want to be a trusted advisor, which is such a grossly overused term right now.

[00:18:12] Everybody's like, I'm a trusted advisor.

[00:18:14] I'm like, yeah, okay.

[00:18:15] Yeah, whatever.

[00:18:16] You know, so is the 10 other people in line here.

[00:18:18] So what are you doing differently in the prospecting to make somebody go, ooh, I want to talk to her.

[00:18:24] I want to talk to him.

[00:18:25] It starts with understanding that you're relevant, that you're here to impress the client and not yourself.

[00:18:30] And most of those people in the prospecting calls, I think, are already behind the eight ball because they're focused on themselves.

[00:18:36] I've got a great product.

[00:18:37] I got this.

[00:18:38] I can do it.

[00:18:38] Why wouldn't they want to buy it?

[00:18:39] Well, you're thinking that before you've earned the right for them to think that way about you as well.

[00:18:46] So in prospecting, I always reach out and just tell them, hey, we love to collaborate with organizations like you.

[00:18:53] We've done a lot of good work on it.

[00:18:55] But let me tell you, my only job is to help you grow your business and find out that there's ways where we're relevant in a partnership and we can help you grow.

[00:19:02] Yeah, we got a lot of great products, which I would love to talk to you about.

[00:19:06] I think it'd be fantastic.

[00:19:07] But at this point, you know, if I started telling you really everything, that'd be like a doctor writing you a prescription before she asks you what's wrong with you.

[00:19:15] I just like to chat and see if we can collaborate, if there's something we can do.

[00:19:19] And if it is, great.

[00:19:21] I'd love to be a long-term partner of yours.

[00:19:24] If not, then okay, maybe I can refer you to somebody who can help you.

[00:19:27] But my only intention is to help you grow your business, even if it's not with us.

[00:19:31] And I've never had anybody tell me no.

[00:19:34] They might say not now.

[00:19:36] They might say, geez, okay, this is very important, but I'm not going to look at that again until March.

[00:19:41] Please call me then and remind me.

[00:19:43] But you don't ever get when you're approaching them that you're there to serve them.

[00:19:47] When you're approaching them that you're relevant, that you hope to be a co-conspirator in their success.

[00:19:54] And you know it might not be with you, but you'd like to have that conversation.

[00:19:58] No one's going to turn you down.

[00:19:59] Might not be today, but they're not going to say, no, get out of here.

[00:20:03] They're going to tell you when they can meet, and they're so inspired by that versus everybody else talking about what's going wrong and how you shouldn't be this way.

[00:20:13] And you have all this risk, and you shouldn't be doing this.

[00:20:15] They know that.

[00:20:17] They're waking up every day.

[00:20:18] Your customer is waking up every day trying to figure out how to sell more things to more people.

[00:20:22] If they're in construction, if they're in house development, if they're in software, how do we sell more software?

[00:20:28] How do we sell more consulting?

[00:20:29] How do we sell more houses?

[00:20:30] How can we do all this stuff?

[00:20:31] And you're going to them.

[00:20:32] Most people screw up on this.

[00:20:33] They go to them as a sales rep and say, well, stop everything that's important to you and listen to what I have to say about my product.

[00:20:40] That's no, not going to happen.

[00:20:44] Now, if their house is on fire and you say, hey, I've got a fire extinguisher.

[00:20:50] Okay, good.

[00:20:51] Now we're lucky.

[00:20:52] Good timing.

[00:20:53] Great.

[00:20:53] But how often is that going to happen?

[00:20:55] Right?

[00:20:55] You've got to be able to get their attention.

[00:20:57] And what they're looking for is relevance, which means that you can be a collaborative partner in their success.

[00:21:04] Not just somebody who wants to buy a product.

[00:21:06] But how can I help you be more successful?

[00:21:09] Or maybe there's some dots I connect for you.

[00:21:11] I just want to know you and let's explore this idea.

[00:21:15] I've never had anybody say no.

[00:21:17] You know, again, maybe not now, but they're not going to say no.

[00:21:22] So, hey, I wanted to go back to a couple things.

[00:21:26] You know, Bob brought up here customer experience.

[00:21:30] And you were talking about relevance.

[00:21:32] And you had said three things, I think, seen, heard, and understood were the three things.

[00:21:37] Would you consider that to be the definition of customer?

[00:21:40] We use that word a lot, right?

[00:21:41] You need to provide a better customer experience.

[00:21:44] Would you consider that to be the definition of customer experience?

[00:21:48] That's the beginning of the definition for sure.

[00:21:50] I think the second part of it would be what's on the invitation.

[00:21:54] You know, I tell people this all the time when it comes to customer experience.

[00:21:57] If you're having a party this weekend at your house, say a holiday party, and you say it's a costume party, it better be a costume party.

[00:22:03] You know, if you say it's black tie, it better be black tie.

[00:22:07] You don't want to have a black tie party and somebody's showing up with a costume because they didn't know what it was.

[00:22:11] So whatever you say it is, you better deliver it.

[00:22:14] So if you're saying to them that the experience you will have with me is Rich Carlton Four Seasons Plus, you know, you're going to have an elite experience for me that is beyond what you can.

[00:22:25] I'm going to anticipate your needs.

[00:22:26] I'm going to be there for you.

[00:22:27] I'm going to be that silent partner, that concierge that's always there for you.

[00:22:31] If you say that, you better deliver.

[00:22:34] Then you can fulfill the customer experience because the customer is looking for that.

[00:22:39] They're not looking for more crisis.

[00:22:41] You know, most business owners live in three states of being and it doesn't matter if you own it or you're a CEO of a big company, a Fortune 100 or whatever.

[00:22:48] Most businesses and people are either in a crisis, leaving the crisis or running toward another crisis.

[00:22:53] They don't need more crisis.

[00:22:54] They don't need it from you.

[00:22:55] What they want is a moment where they can breathe, understand that there's a partnership in this relative.

[00:23:00] And what can we do?

[00:23:01] And oh, this person is trying to help me grow.

[00:23:04] Oh, okay.

[00:23:05] Now you've got my attention.

[00:23:06] If you just call up and say, I got a great new water bottle here for you.

[00:23:10] You need to buy this because we've got the best water bottles out there.

[00:23:13] They're going to look at you and go, yeah, okay.

[00:23:17] How is that relevant to me?

[00:23:19] You know, but if you talk about growing your business, growing their business and opening opportunities and just exploration, they'll meet with you.

[00:23:26] You know, they'll do it.

[00:23:28] And I have kind of a part two to this.

[00:23:31] We had, I don't know if you're familiar with Matt Dixon.

[00:23:35] He wrote The Jilt Effect where he talks, he was on our show.

[00:23:39] I don't know, Brandon, maybe, I don't know.

[00:23:41] It was in 2024, I think.

[00:23:47] It's 25 in two weeks, guys.

[00:23:49] So I'm with you.

[00:23:50] I don't know what year it is.

[00:23:51] It was the last week.

[00:23:52] I don't know.

[00:23:52] Anyway, one of the things, you know, he talks about in the book, right, is that companies get more caught up in the fear of messing up than they do in the fear of missing out.

[00:24:02] And the fear of messing up ends up indecision, no decision, long drawn out sales cycles.

[00:24:10] I wanted to kind of tie that back to what you were saying is, hey, they can't make a bad decision.

[00:24:15] Yeah.

[00:24:15] And how do you overcome that?

[00:24:18] Because I do agree that's a lot of the, and Brandon, I think you would even see this and what you're doing, right, is like, oh, yeah, we know we need to be doing a live show or we know we need to be, but maybe, I don't know, that'll be next month or next quarter or next whatever.

[00:24:32] And there's this fear of, well, what if I don't, doesn't work or whatever.

[00:24:37] How do we overcome that?

[00:24:38] Yeah.

[00:24:39] Well, Sullivan did some work at Strategic Coach on that very, very topic.

[00:24:42] I thought it was brilliant.

[00:24:43] And basically what he said was, there's only four customers out there.

[00:24:47] There's only four types of customers.

[00:24:49] There's only four types of business.

[00:24:50] There's only four types of human beings.

[00:24:51] And most salespeople screw up and go to the wrong one.

[00:24:55] So those four types are real simple.

[00:24:57] A business is failing.

[00:24:58] It's an absolute failure.

[00:25:00] The business is frustrated.

[00:25:02] The business is traditionally successful.

[00:25:05] In other words, everybody knows them.

[00:25:06] Everybody sees them.

[00:25:07] It's just running.

[00:25:08] It's operating.

[00:25:08] Everybody sees them.

[00:25:09] Or the business is transformational.

[00:25:11] It's constantly looking for new ideas and changing.

[00:25:14] The leadership reflects that.

[00:25:16] 90% of the salespeople, when they're going out there, want to go, they basically want to go big game hunting.

[00:25:22] They want to go after those traditionally successful models that are out there.

[00:25:26] That's why when you see these big software companies or soft drink companies or big brands, their sales reps lined up for miles to pitch while their water is better than the next water.

[00:25:36] And they're all going after this.

[00:25:37] The key, though, is that the two people that people go after the most are the two people that they should not go after.

[00:25:44] And that's the traditionally successful client because they're not going to take the risk.

[00:25:49] They're not going to buy it.

[00:25:50] They're not going to change.

[00:25:51] If they've got a long-term relationship with somebody, even though it's subpar, if it doesn't hurt and doesn't mess up their success, they're not going to budge for it.

[00:26:01] They're not going to think differently.

[00:26:02] And then the other thing people go to is the failures because they think, oh, I can help them.

[00:26:07] They're desperate.

[00:26:08] They'll want it.

[00:26:09] There's a reason why they're a failure.

[00:26:11] You shouldn't do that.

[00:26:12] I'm sorry.

[00:26:12] It just didn't work.

[00:26:14] So if you think about that, most salespeople, when they're presenting themselves, are going after the failures and they're traditionally successful because they want to go home and say they just slayed the dragon, right?

[00:26:23] That dragon doesn't want you to slay it.

[00:26:25] It doesn't need you.

[00:26:26] What salespeople need to go after to get rid of that fear and that hesitation are the people that are, number one, frustrated because those organizations are raising their hand and saying, hey, we're looking for a who.

[00:26:38] We're looking for a hero.

[00:26:39] We're frustrated.

[00:26:40] We're stuck.

[00:26:41] Who can help us?

[00:26:42] And if you go to them and say, hey, I'm only here to help you grow your business, even if it's not with us, but I'd like to collaborate and work with you to see if I can help you through this frustrating period, they're going to sign up for you.

[00:26:53] And the same thing with the traditionally successful, sorry, the transformatives.

[00:26:56] The transformative organizations are going to say, wow, we're always looking for a new idea and a new concept.

[00:27:01] And if you're the one who's here and you get that and you're going to help me grow, we'll do it.

[00:27:06] But I mean, really think about that.

[00:27:08] If most salespeople are going after the traditionally successful customer, the one they want to win, the thing they want to bag, they're going after the wrong one because they don't change.

[00:27:18] They don't want to change.

[00:27:20] You would have to be so different that it would just be, you know, it's like, wow.

[00:27:25] And in most cases, they're going to come after you.

[00:27:28] You don't go after them.

[00:27:29] So that's what I tell people when it comes to that stagnation, that fear, that don't want to move type thing.

[00:27:34] You're probably talking to the wrong person, not the individual, but it starts at the organization.

[00:27:40] So ask yourself, are they a failure?

[00:27:42] Are they frustrated?

[00:27:43] Are they traditionally successful?

[00:27:45] And are they transformative because great salespeople only go after the frustrated because they're raising their hand saying, I need help.

[00:27:51] I need a hero.

[00:27:52] Or they go after the transformational who are always looking for new and better ideas that are relevant and we can collaborate together.

[00:27:59] Traditionally successful organizations, they're not going to budge.

[00:28:01] Don't waste your time.

[00:28:03] And there's clients we have that, you know, have reached out, not clients, but prospects who've reached out to us.

[00:28:08] And we will be polite, but we'll kind of back away from those traditionally successful because what we learned over time is they buy the least, require the most work, beat you down on price.

[00:28:19] And by the time it's over with, for the energy that you spent on them, think about the tens of thousands of frustrated and transformational organizations and people that you could have helped.

[00:28:29] And they're willing to pay top bill because you're their hero, because you're that person who's relevant to them.

[00:28:35] So long way to say most people are going after the wrong prospects when they run into that situation.

[00:28:40] So how does a salesperson identify those two types of prospects to go after?

[00:28:46] Oh, that's your world, right?

[00:28:47] So if you look at the evolution of the economy over time, and I tell students this when I teach classes, the greatest economist ever was Charles Darwin.

[00:28:57] I know he took a swing at biology, probably got it 20% right, you know, but good guy.

[00:29:02] He seemed to be okay.

[00:29:03] But you take all of Darwin's economics or biology theories and apply it to economics and it works every time from natural selections all the way down.

[00:29:12] So what you got to do is you just got to be open and honest because our economy has evolved.

[00:29:17] 30 years ago, we used to do a thing called selling off the walls where you walk in and you look around, you see pictures of their kids.

[00:29:23] Oh, he's a golfer.

[00:29:24] And you start coming up with common ways of thinking, but you had to be in the room to see their office.

[00:29:30] Like Tom, when we first started doing it, I think you mentioned my, oh, can't see it now.

[00:29:34] I got a Coke machine back there.

[00:29:35] You know, as you saw 1957, we started talking about that.

[00:29:37] We created commonality on that.

[00:29:39] We're not selling each other.

[00:29:40] We were just talking.

[00:29:41] But most people think that, oh, I still had to sell off the walls.

[00:29:44] Now you don't.

[00:29:45] Now you got to look at them on LinkedIn.

[00:29:47] You can Google them.

[00:29:48] You can do all these things that you guys talk about, which I think is brilliant and say, okay, what is the commonality here?

[00:29:53] What are they saying in lectures?

[00:29:55] What are they saying in interviews?

[00:29:56] What are they saying in posts where I can maybe think, oh, they're really frustrated or better.

[00:30:02] They're a transformational organization that's constantly growing and doing better.

[00:30:07] If they're just sitting there posting things and talking about how their products are kind of steady Eddie and going through there, they're probably not right for you.

[00:30:16] If they're talking about we just thought about this new thing or we're struggling or we're failing, there's so much data out there that if you open your mind and you say, this is who I'm going after, you can find it.

[00:30:27] But it probably requires people like you to help guide them, especially at first.

[00:30:31] I know it does me.

[00:30:32] So if you guys are doing that, it's amazing, by the way.

[00:30:35] It's an interesting one, Brandon.

[00:30:37] I think that you could even create some AI tools that could look at the sentiment of the data that's coming back and identify, hey, does this company look to be one of those four categories?

[00:30:50] Yeah.

[00:30:51] Oh, yeah.

[00:30:52] So I think there's things that could definitely be done because it's, I think, Don, what I hear you saying, it's not just an individual.

[00:30:59] It's more of the company culture or the mindset that exists within that organization.

[00:31:05] And some companies, if they're not transformational, they're constantly frustrated because they are trying to figure out how to get past that whatever.

[00:31:13] They're frustrated that they're not getting past whatever they need to get past.

[00:31:17] A hundred percent.

[00:31:18] I'll tell you a story real quick.

[00:31:19] We were working on a big, traditionally successful company one day, and I really wanted it.

[00:31:25] And they had their own sort of training and university system in there.

[00:31:28] And there's a big, big global brand.

[00:31:31] I won't tell you who they are.

[00:31:32] It's AT&T.

[00:31:33] But anyway, so AT&T had me out.

[00:31:35] Great guys.

[00:31:36] I love them to death.

[00:31:37] I know the ex-CEO.

[00:31:38] I knew the guy.

[00:31:39] But anyway, I was talking to somebody in their training facility, and they had me come out two or three times to do presentations and talk.

[00:31:44] And I was just kind of blinded by them.

[00:31:46] I thought, well, I'd love to have this client.

[00:31:48] He finally comes up to me one day and says, hey, look, maybe in another few months we'll look at doing this.

[00:31:53] And I said, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[00:31:54] We've been talking about this for a year.

[00:31:55] I've given you a lot of free time and energy.

[00:31:57] I love you guys.

[00:31:58] I'll keep doing it.

[00:31:59] But tell me the truth.

[00:32:01] What are the chances of us working together?

[00:32:03] Now, keep in mind, this is a traditionally successful 100-plus-year-old company.

[00:32:07] They are not going to rock the boat unless it's some incredible new technology that's so advanced is going to change their dynamics.

[00:32:14] That way, they're transformational.

[00:32:16] But when you talk about employee engagement and workforce involvement and everything that I was working with them on, very, very traditional, which I wasn't following my own advice.

[00:32:25] They're not going to budge.

[00:32:27] So I finally asked him, what is the probability?

[00:32:29] And he said, well, if I had to be totally honest with you, probably not a lot.

[00:32:33] I said, so you won't work with us?

[00:32:35] And he said, no.

[00:32:35] And I said, OK, tell me why.

[00:32:38] Just help me because I put a lot of work into this.

[00:32:40] I want to help you, but I'd like for you to help me too.

[00:32:42] And they were great.

[00:32:43] They were very gracious because he told me the truth.

[00:32:45] He said, if we hire you, we're going to look bad.

[00:32:48] And I said, how?

[00:32:49] And he said, you and your team are better than our team.

[00:32:53] So somebody up the food chain is going to look back at us and say,

[00:32:56] why are we spending tens of millions of dollars internally where we can spend half that and go outside and get a better product?

[00:33:03] And I said, OK, so let me just make sure I heard this.

[00:33:06] You guys are so traditionally successful that you don't want to rock the boat.

[00:33:10] And even though we could be better, you're talking about job preservation.

[00:33:14] You're talking about your own self-interest.

[00:33:16] And if that's the case, I'm fine with it.

[00:33:18] And they said, yeah.

[00:33:20] Yeah, that's in other words, if we hire you, we're putting our own jobs at risk because you guys are better than us.

[00:33:25] And that is a perfect example of a traditionally successful company.

[00:33:28] They don't want to rock the boat.

[00:33:30] So ever since then, I said, for us to work with these big, giant brands, they have to be in transformational mode or we just won't work with them.

[00:33:39] So you've got to pick it, listen, think about it, go with your gut.

[00:33:43] But just be obvious.

[00:33:44] If they're big, giant brands and they're sort of steady Eddie, what are the odds?

[00:33:50] You've got to just be honest with yourself.

[00:33:51] Go after the other folks that are raising their hands and looking for a hero.

[00:33:57] Yeah, I think realistically, and I was just looking back over it, some of our customers of my current company and so forth.

[00:34:06] I think that the only way you really break through with traditionally successful companies is with that killer app, right?

[00:34:14] That killer app that creates that FOMO and so forth.

[00:34:19] Whereas the transformational company, they're not looking necessarily for the killer app.

[00:34:25] They're looking for the things that incrementally can really continue to take them to the next level.

[00:34:31] Oh, absolutely.

[00:34:32] And some of them do it through acquisitions.

[00:34:34] I see Bob's putting something in the chat that some of the organizations will just buy you out to make them better.

[00:34:39] Yeah, that's true if they knew you were there.

[00:34:41] But in these giant traditional organizations, they're going to block you at a mid-range level so that you don't get out there.

[00:34:48] So the trick is if you have something, an app or whatever, even if they say, look, we just want to buy it or we want to acquire you or this is great.

[00:34:55] You've got to be talking to the right people to do it.

[00:34:57] And sometimes the titles and the decision making doesn't match who you are and what you're trying to accomplish.

[00:35:03] But on that note, and I'll tell you, I see salespeople screw this up all the time.

[00:35:08] I mean, all the time where they go in and they don't know who the real decision maker is, you know, and they end up insulting the people by saying, oh, I need to talk to the CEO.

[00:35:17] I need to talk to the CFO.

[00:35:18] I need a decision maker.

[00:35:19] And you're talking to the decision maker while you're doing it because, again, great CEOs don't need to know how to do something.

[00:35:26] They need to know who knows how to do something.

[00:35:28] And when they allocate that responsibility to somebody, they're not going to go back and say, oh, I've got to sign off on everything.

[00:35:34] You've got a trusted employee.

[00:35:36] You've got somebody on your team at the C-suite or whatever.

[00:35:39] And that's their role.

[00:35:40] And most salespeople think that the title, the highest title is who's going to be the decision maker.

[00:35:46] It's not.

[00:35:47] We did something probably 20, 25 years ago called the social buyer's pyramid where we did this study.

[00:35:53] And it was really amazing where we said, OK, how can you look at somebody and know what their decision making process is so that they can engage you?

[00:36:02] And we did this not to be selfish for more sales, but to be selfish because what we want to do is serve people better.

[00:36:10] And the more times you have the sale, the more clients that you get, the more opportunity you have to serve people.

[00:36:15] Right.

[00:36:15] Growth is good.

[00:36:16] Growth means you serve more people.

[00:36:18] Money is good because that means you can make more money, which means you can hire and serve more people.

[00:36:22] Right.

[00:36:22] So success is is just exponential, linear approach.

[00:36:26] It does it.

[00:36:26] And we started thinking to ourselves, what is it that drives decisions and how can we look at somebody and realize that?

[00:36:32] And we figured it out.

[00:36:34] It's in the book, Perfect Plan that we wrote.

[00:36:36] And basically what we say is that you can look at where they are in corporate and social status to understand what their buying preferences are.

[00:36:44] So if you if you think of a corporation as a big pyramid, you get the base of the pyramid, the middle of the pyramid, the tip of the pyramid.

[00:36:50] And you say, OK, the base is the hardworking people that come to work every day, clock in, clock out.

[00:36:55] It's what they do.

[00:36:56] Well, they're going to do everything based on price.

[00:36:59] So if you're talking to somebody that's just a hardworking soul that comes to work every day, they're clocking in and out.

[00:37:03] They just want to feed their kids and go home and take the weekend off every time they're going to buy based on price because that's the world they live in.

[00:37:11] They're trying to figure out how do I stretch my paycheck?

[00:37:13] What do I do?

[00:37:13] So you're not going to change that behavioral dynamic just because they're at work.

[00:37:17] They're going to buy price.

[00:37:18] Well, then you go up to the middle part of the pyramid and that's middle managers in a corporate structure, people with a title, vice president, director, supervisor, anybody who's got some kind of a title.

[00:37:29] We learned that every one of those folks in that genre, they purchase based on perception and perception is based on brands.

[00:37:38] In other words, I want to make sure that if I make this purchase, that the perception that other people around me up and down of me for making this decision is good.

[00:37:48] And the way they get around that is not taking risk by buying a brand like IBM or something like that.

[00:37:55] Because if you have an IBM mainframe and something goes wrong, you just go, I don't know what happened.

[00:38:01] It's IBM.

[00:38:01] We're going to call them.

[00:38:02] They'll come fix it.

[00:38:03] Nobody's going to say anything to you.

[00:38:04] But that same group of middle managers or committees, when they're in there, they're going to sit there and go, oh, I know that this is your product is better, faster, smarter and less expensive.

[00:38:14] But, oh God, if I buy you and something goes wrong and everybody doesn't know who you are, then I got to explain myself.

[00:38:22] They're going to think I went cheap.

[00:38:23] So sorry, but I'm going to spend an extra $50 million to buy an inferior product from a big brand out there who I can hide behind.

[00:38:33] And that's sad, but that's the way it is.

[00:38:35] And then the tip of the spear, the tip of it in the C-suite, they don't care about brand and perception and they certainly don't care about price.

[00:38:43] They care about the return on the investment over the time it takes to allocate toward that investment, ROI over time.

[00:38:49] In other words, I've got buckets of money in front of me.

[00:38:51] If I give you that bucket, how much is your project, your product or whatever going to give me back over the same amount of time?

[00:38:58] Because if you're at 10% over six months and that person over there is at 50% over three months, I'm going there.

[00:39:04] I'm just going to move it where it needs to go.

[00:39:06] So a great salesperson can look at the person they're with without judgment, no judgment, you know, and just say, OK, this is a price buyer.

[00:39:15] I better be careful with that.

[00:39:17] Or this is a perception buyer.

[00:39:18] They just want brands.

[00:39:19] And this is where people screw up.

[00:39:21] They might know it and say, this is a brand buyer, but I'm going there and tell them how we got such low cost because that'll make them look good.

[00:39:27] No, it won't.

[00:39:28] That's the worst thing these people want.

[00:39:30] They're going to think if I buy the low cost that I'm going to be branded as being cheap if something goes wrong.

[00:39:35] So that person doesn't care about price.

[00:39:38] They care about brand and the perception of the decision.

[00:39:41] So if you go to the C-suite, like I said, and you start talking about relevance, and this is what our product does.

[00:39:47] And here's how it's going to impact you.

[00:39:48] And over time, you'll see an X ROI over this amount and over this.

[00:39:52] They're going to go, great.

[00:39:53] You're talking my language.

[00:39:54] You are my hero because you are relevant.

[00:39:57] So salespeople have got to be able to look at these things and say, OK, am I a price buyer?

[00:40:02] Great.

[00:40:03] Good luck for you.

[00:40:03] You're selling hamburgers again.

[00:40:05] Or am I a perception seller?

[00:40:07] Am I working with committees and middle managers and big and giant organizations, which ironically is where most people, where purchases happen?

[00:40:14] And then how do I make sure I'm not insulting people here?

[00:40:17] Because if you go to one of those middle managers and say, oh, I need to talk to the CEO, the decision maker.

[00:40:22] Where is she?

[00:40:23] Or who's happening?

[00:40:23] What's happening here?

[00:40:25] They're going to be going, dude, I'm the decision maker.

[00:40:28] I've been given this responsibility.

[00:40:29] And I can already tell you're going to make me look bad.

[00:40:31] So you're gone.

[00:40:33] So it's hard.

[00:40:34] But at the same time, you've got to just use common sense.

[00:40:37] Use tools like that social buyer's pyramid, the perfect plan, and say, OK, I'm smart enough to know where I am.

[00:40:43] Here's how I need to approach this.

[00:40:44] Got to make sure I don't insult anybody.

[00:40:46] But then I got to ask myself, I'm presenting to a committee.

[00:40:49] They're going to be buying off a perception.

[00:40:51] They're not going to care about price.

[00:40:52] They want to make sure it's done right.

[00:40:53] But at the same time, what is their corporate culture?

[00:40:56] Are they transformative?

[00:40:57] Are they traditionally successful?

[00:40:59] Where are they?

[00:40:59] And you start to combine all these things together and you have an incredible opportunity for success.

[00:41:04] As long as your mindset is you were here to sell them something that's relevant and it's going to help them grow their business.

[00:41:11] It might not be with you.

[00:41:13] But if you do, then going back to that term everybody uses trusted advisor, then you really are a trusted advisor.

[00:41:19] But better, you're a trusted hero because you've done something for them with a level of respect that nobody else did.

[00:41:27] Everybody else is out there pitching price and product.

[00:41:29] You're pitching relevance.

[00:41:31] Man, that's a game changer.

[00:41:32] And honestly, you can't slow down the success when you kind of dial that in and gets going.

[00:41:37] The universe has a way of just sending you more opportunities than you can do.

[00:41:41] But the universe also has a way of taking its parts back if you're going to try to screw somebody and do it the wrong way.

[00:41:47] So you go out there and do it the wrong way.

[00:41:49] The universe takes parts back.

[00:41:50] You do it the right way and it's kind of weird.

[00:41:53] You start getting more and more opportunities out there.

[00:41:56] But you've got to kind of think through these things a little bit.

[00:41:58] It'll happen.

[00:42:00] Again, I feel like I'm ready to go storm the castle or something.

[00:42:05] It was fun, right?

[00:42:07] I mean, Brandon, I think I see a framework here.

[00:42:11] So take what Don was saying, right?

[00:42:14] Like a matrix, which we love, you know.

[00:42:16] On the y-axis, put the type of company, the culture, right?

[00:42:20] The four types of company.

[00:42:21] On the x-axis, put the different pyramid items there.

[00:42:25] And then when you're talking to somebody in an organization,

[00:42:28] you can plot them on the x-axis related to where they are in the pyramid,

[00:42:33] but also related to their company culture.

[00:42:36] And now you have your strategy about how to go and approach them.

[00:42:40] Oh, you're brilliant.

[00:42:42] Very smart, Tom.

[00:42:43] People forget how predictable humanity really is.

[00:42:47] We're very, very predictable.

[00:42:49] What we fail in sales is to realize that we're not the buyer.

[00:42:52] And salespeople need to know this.

[00:42:54] You're not the buyer.

[00:42:56] They're the buyer.

[00:42:57] So you can impress yourself all day long and be excited about it and go out there

[00:43:01] and do the verbal vomit and throw up all over them and tell them how great you are.

[00:43:04] And they're just sitting there going, dude, I just want to buy the right brand.

[00:43:07] I don't care.

[00:43:08] But if you start using these tools, and I love that x-y-axis thing,

[00:43:11] you start using tools to get you in the right mindset before you get there.

[00:43:16] You can sell anything to anybody at any time as long as it's ethical, moral,

[00:43:20] and it's the right thing that helps them advance their mission,

[00:43:22] helps them grow their business.

[00:43:23] And you accept that I might do this even if it's not with me.

[00:43:27] But, man, get out of their way because success breeds success.

[00:43:31] You know, and success is contagious.

[00:43:33] And I don't know.

[00:43:34] It just all works.

[00:43:35] But it's an art.

[00:43:36] It's a science.

[00:43:37] You don't want a heart surgeon winging it, right, when they're changing your heart out.

[00:43:41] So why would a salesperson wing it when they go into a sales?

[00:43:44] Take the time.

[00:43:45] Study the product.

[00:43:46] Study the opportunity.

[00:43:47] Use tools like what you guys do, the fist bump.

[00:43:50] Do that.

[00:43:51] And then you've got a higher chance of success because, go back to what we said in the beginning,

[00:43:56] the consumer's got a couple good choices in front of them, and neither one of those are bad decisions.

[00:44:01] So how do you make it where you're the decision they choose?

[00:44:05] Because you're relevant.

[00:44:06] You see them.

[00:44:07] You hear them.

[00:44:07] You understand them, which means you value them.

[00:44:09] If they feel valued, they will run to you.

[00:44:12] That's how you sell today's environment.

[00:44:14] And relevance is in the eye of the beholder.

[00:44:16] Absolutely.

[00:44:17] Absolutely.

[00:44:17] So relevant to one person in that matrix is not relevant to somebody else in that matrix.

[00:44:23] Oh, absolutely.

[00:44:24] I'll tell you a bold statement.

[00:44:25] And I said this the other day, and I kind of was like, oh, well, it's the truth.

[00:44:29] I'm just going to say it again.

[00:44:30] We are plowing toward an extinction event in economics.

[00:44:34] Okay?

[00:44:34] Two things about to happen parallel.

[00:44:36] And the new work we've got coming out in a few weeks called Here Come the Girls, I think is the most formative work we've ever done.

[00:44:42] And it talks about the year 2028.

[00:44:45] Women are going to take over all of global leadership.

[00:44:48] And I'm talking about everything from the deli, the local deli to parliament.

[00:44:52] It's going to be dominated by women.

[00:44:53] It's already 42%, but it's about to happen.

[00:44:56] What we learned in our research and our study was that a like-minded female-run business right next to the same business in the same geographic area with the same variables run by a man, the woman's business will outproduce the man's business three to one.

[00:45:10] So you look at that and go, wow, well, that's pretty interesting.

[00:45:13] Why?

[00:45:14] Well, we studied it, and we do know why.

[00:45:16] And it's how they become relevant, how they understand perception, but most importantly, how the female leader, the female salesperson approaches critical thinking with her team.

[00:45:26] But what we really learned from this is that it's not a girl thing.

[00:45:30] It's just something girls do so they can take over, and we can teach guys to do it.

[00:45:36] But think about what's about to happen in the economy.

[00:45:39] If that female-owned business grows at 3x, businesses don't survive alone.

[00:45:44] They buy from other businesses too.

[00:45:46] So when all the businesses start growing at 3x, you don't have 3x.

[00:45:50] You have 3x cubed.

[00:45:52] So the economy is about to explode in the biggest way we've ever seen.

[00:45:57] And it's not just a gender thing.

[00:45:58] It's something we can all do and learn from.

[00:46:01] And the book talks about why all these variables are crossing and hitting at the same time.

[00:46:04] We can mathematically prove and qualifiably prove why this is going to happen.

[00:46:08] But here's what's really, really important.

[00:46:10] If you look at that and you say, man, that's going to be great.

[00:46:13] It's not going to be 3x.

[00:46:15] It's going to be 3x cubed.

[00:46:17] There's going to be more buyers and more opportunities than we can imagine.

[00:46:20] Yes, that's true.

[00:46:21] But here's the underlying current.

[00:46:23] This extinction event is going to happen within a lot of sales organizations where you're going to see,

[00:46:29] I'm guessing, like financial services, accounting, some law.

[00:46:34] And it's not all AI.

[00:46:35] But I would say financial services, accounting, law, banks, things like that.

[00:46:39] I would say 70% of them are going to go out of business in the next five years because they're not relevant.

[00:46:46] They're just pushing product.

[00:46:47] When you have a 9x or 3x cubed type of environment going on and they're running really fast, they don't have time for your crap.

[00:46:56] They don't have time to sit there and go, okay, yeah, I've heard this story before.

[00:46:59] Okay, yeah, we didn't sign that form right.

[00:47:01] I guess we're all in a breach of whatever.

[00:47:04] Nobody cares about that.

[00:47:06] They really want to work with each other where we're all growing together.

[00:47:11] And most of these, like I said, banking, financial services and all, they're still slinging product.

[00:47:17] And we're about to run into an economy that doesn't want to just buy product.

[00:47:22] They want to be connected, relevant, intertwined with each other, and they want to grow together.

[00:47:27] And that's great leadership, right?

[00:47:29] You don't want to be the smartest person in the room.

[00:47:31] You want to be in a room where everybody's getting smarter together.

[00:47:34] And that's what's about to happen in the economy.

[00:47:36] And these organizations, either at an aggregate level, like I said, financial services or individuals,

[00:47:43] if you don't get on this bandwagon, you're about to go the way of the dodo bird because it's going to leave you.

[00:47:48] But think about this.

[00:47:49] And this is something for your listeners to know.

[00:47:52] If that extinction event occurs, which it will, and you're one of that 30% that's left in an economy that's growing exponentially,

[00:48:01] actually, good God, you can't get to the opportunity that's about to hit you.

[00:48:07] So we're about to do a flip where supply and demand changes dramatically.

[00:48:11] Demand grows at literally 3x cubed while supply is going to shrink.

[00:48:16] So what does that tell you?

[00:48:18] If you're in that shrinking part of the surviving economy that's in there,

[00:48:22] you can name your price if you're committed to being their hero,

[00:48:27] if you're committed to helping them grow their business,

[00:48:30] and if you understand that they have multiple choices that are all good and it might not be you today.

[00:48:36] But when 70% of your competitors just fell off the planet and the market is growing faster than anybody,

[00:48:43] you can't get to it, man.

[00:48:45] You're going to have so much fun coming up.

[00:48:47] It's going to be a feeding frenzy out there.

[00:48:49] But those people that didn't want to embrace concepts like what you guys teach and what you're doing and fist pump,

[00:48:56] well, Darwin was right.

[00:48:58] That's all I can say.

[00:49:00] It's just applied to economics and you'll see what's about to happen.

[00:49:03] But those who buy into what you guys talk about and everything, good Lord,

[00:49:07] they're going to have the most fun they've ever had in their careers.

[00:49:10] It's going to be a great time for people who want to commit to doing it the right way.

[00:49:15] You know what's exciting for me about today, Tom, is how excited, enthusiastic, and passionate Don is about the positive side of sales.

[00:49:24] It seems like so many conversations we've had lately, it's been like, hey, this is challenging.

[00:49:29] This is hard.

[00:49:29] This is the sluggishness that organizations are going through.

[00:49:35] And you got me excited about the future and what's coming.

[00:49:40] Tom, unless you have something else I'd love before we run out of time, as a dad to four daughters,

[00:49:47] I would love to jump in a bit on Here Come the Girls.

[00:49:52] And I know it's not really just about women or about female.

[00:49:56] It's about a leadership style.

[00:49:58] But tell us a little bit about your book.

[00:50:00] Oh, thank you.

[00:50:02] Yeah, thank you.

[00:50:02] And I'm the opposite.

[00:50:03] I've got three adult boys.

[00:50:05] So I'm a boy.

[00:50:06] I grew up in an all-boy house.

[00:50:07] I've got boys.

[00:50:07] The dog's a boy.

[00:50:08] All I know is guys, right?

[00:50:10] And I go out there and I go, huh, as an economist, I'm looking out here and I can see this thing coming over the horizon and we need to explore it.

[00:50:18] So I started talking to some people in the academia world about four or five years ago about this theory I had.

[00:50:23] And I was able to prove it quantifiably that women are going to take over global leadership.

[00:50:27] That's math.

[00:50:28] There's nothing to change.

[00:50:29] But the concept around it is, okay, let's just be honest.

[00:50:32] And science is called the null hypothesis, which means it either is good or it's not good.

[00:50:37] It is true or it's not true.

[00:50:38] Both of those are good answers.

[00:50:40] So if I tell you that if you do this, it's bad for you, don't do that.

[00:50:45] That's good.

[00:50:46] If I say if you do this and it's good for you, well, let's do that.

[00:50:48] Let's rinse and repeat.

[00:50:49] Let's keep doing that.

[00:50:50] So when you approach an economic shift like what's about to happen, you have to ask yourself, is this good or is it not?

[00:50:57] So we spent the last four years interviewing thousands and thousands of female leaders around the world about what is it that you do differently than anybody else?

[00:51:06] Tell us your secret.

[00:51:07] What's the sauce that you put on things?

[00:51:09] What's your fairy dust to make it work?

[00:51:11] And I'm telling you guys, of the thousands of people, the consistency was close to 99.99%, which is unheard of in scientific study.

[00:51:20] All of these women around the world were doing the exact same thing the exact same way.

[00:51:24] And it's their ability to work with their teams in a critical situation.

[00:51:29] And I'll just give you the short version of it.

[00:51:31] When you've got a problem and you take it to a male leader, and I'm exaggerating, so please don't anybody say, well, I don't do that.

[00:51:36] I know, but most guys do.

[00:51:38] Most guys, when they have a problem come up, they stop what they're doing and say, well, I can fix this.

[00:51:42] Let me fix it for you.

[00:51:43] Right?

[00:51:43] Guys are fixers.

[00:51:45] And we've been that way since, you know, the dinosaurs.

[00:51:47] I mean, we're good at a couple things.

[00:51:49] We're good at breaking things.

[00:51:50] We're good at fixing things.

[00:51:51] And we're good at using red muscle mass.

[00:51:53] A guy can plow a field or cut down a tree probably better than most girls do because of red muscle mass.

[00:51:59] That's it.

[00:52:00] So when we evolved in the patriarchal system and we evolved through agriculture, which requires red muscle mass, we evolved through the institutional or the industrial age, red muscle mass.

[00:52:11] Guys, we had our turn.

[00:52:12] But now we look at it.

[00:52:14] We're out of those ages.

[00:52:15] We're in a service-based global economy.

[00:52:17] And the level, the playing field is level.

[00:52:19] At the same time, over the past 50 years, the way society approaches women and education and opportunity and things has dramatically shifted.

[00:52:28] So now everything's level.

[00:52:29] So you can't hide behind the muscle.

[00:52:31] You can't hide behind the agriculture anymore.

[00:52:33] So we started looking at this, and we can see where those yield curves are going to cross in the year 2028.

[00:52:38] But then through all these interviews, we're able to say, what is it that you do differently?

[00:52:42] And it's the way they approach their teams.

[00:52:44] And I can tell you, here's a little sidebar that's very, very interesting.

[00:52:48] I know your listeners are worldwide, but let's just talk about North America, specifically Canada and the United States.

[00:52:53] In Canada and the United States, it's true for the world, but we'll just stick to this.

[00:52:57] The average worker is 39 years old.

[00:52:59] That same worker changes jobs every three years now.

[00:53:03] And when we go to them and say, why are you changing jobs so much?

[00:53:06] They always talk about culture and management.

[00:53:09] People don't leave jobs for money.

[00:53:10] They leave because they're managers and their culture.

[00:53:12] So what we're seeing with this evolution of women is they're able to come in there and their decision-making processes with their teams.

[00:53:19] They don't try to fix stuff.

[00:53:21] They let their team fix it.

[00:53:22] So if somebody comes up with a problem, what a female leader does, a guy just goes, let me fix it for you.

[00:53:27] What a female leader does is she shows sympathy to the problem.

[00:53:31] She immediately looks at it and goes, oh, that's a real problem.

[00:53:34] I appreciate that.

[00:53:35] And she's sympathetic that the problem exists.

[00:53:38] She's not sympathetic to the people, but to the problem.

[00:53:41] Then she leans into the team member who brought them the problem, and she's empathetic to the team member.

[00:53:47] So you show sympathy to the problem and empathy to the person.

[00:53:50] But in doing stuff, you're saying, hey, look, I know that's a very real problem.

[00:53:53] Those ships are stuck.

[00:53:54] They're on strike.

[00:53:55] We can't get our containers off the boat.

[00:53:56] That's going to affect supply chain.

[00:53:58] I get it.

[00:53:59] And now I know you're responsible for this part of the business, but you didn't cause that.

[00:54:03] Are you okay?

[00:54:03] Are you breathing?

[00:54:04] Are you fine?

[00:54:06] So she's isolating the problem, acknowledging, yes, a real problem, sympathy to the problem.

[00:54:10] She shows empathy to the person.

[00:54:12] Like, I know this is a breathe.

[00:54:14] It'll be okay.

[00:54:15] You know?

[00:54:16] But then instead of fixing it herself, what she does is she says, hey, how would you do this?

[00:54:22] This is your show.

[00:54:23] You're my hero.

[00:54:24] You're my who.

[00:54:25] How would you do this?

[00:54:27] And 95 plus percent of the time, the person who brought you the problem knows how to solve the problem.

[00:54:32] Probably better than the leader does because they live in that world.

[00:54:35] Well, what the female leader does is she empowers them immediately and says, you know, you got this right.

[00:54:41] Go do it.

[00:54:42] And so what she's doing is she's allowing her team to solve their own problems better than she can solve it herself.

[00:54:48] But by saying I'm sympathetic to the problem, empathetic to you, and I'm leaning in the middle to help you say, no, you've got permission to be the hero here.

[00:54:58] What she's really doing is saying, I see you.

[00:55:01] I see the problem.

[00:55:01] I hear you.

[00:55:02] And I understand you, which means I value you.

[00:55:05] Just like we've been talking about.

[00:55:07] See them, hear them, understand them, which means I value them.

[00:55:09] Which means when you combine that with empowerment, people on her team are moving mountains to do it, to grow that business.

[00:55:18] But here's what's interesting.

[00:55:19] What she really just did was give that team member permission that next time there's a problem, if you know how to solve it, solve it.

[00:55:27] That means that she is the leader is able to go out there and focus on innovation and sales and growth and things.

[00:55:34] She's not getting caught in the weeds.

[00:55:36] And she has a team that's out there constantly adjusting and adapting because they have permission to do it because they're empowered.

[00:55:42] They're empowered because they feel valued.

[00:55:44] They're valued because they feel seen, heard, and understood because she shows simply the problem, empty the person, and she meets them in the middle to help them.

[00:55:52] So the cultural shift there is so dynamic that these people, when it comes three or four years and they get the itch, they don't change.

[00:56:00] In fact, they stay longer.

[00:56:01] They get better and they get more productive.

[00:56:04] That's why the female-owned business is out producing the guy three to one.

[00:56:07] But like I said, that's not a girl thing.

[00:56:10] That's just something girls do, which means we can start training guys to kind of shake off the way we've been trained in the past and saying, look, when you're leading somebody, don't try to fix it.

[00:56:22] Empower your team.

[00:56:23] Make them feel valued.

[00:56:24] See the problem.

[00:56:25] Show them sympathy, empathy, and understand.

[00:56:26] You know, go through that process.

[00:56:28] And guys are sitting there going, okay, I'll try it because I'm not going to be left behind when all this happens.

[00:56:34] So the book goes through all the academics of that.

[00:56:37] It talks about the methodology behind it.

[00:56:40] And we've been sharing it with the world, and we're really, really excited about this.

[00:56:45] So even though I'm a boy dad and you're a girl dad, Brandon, I tell you, there's no better time.

[00:56:50] When the economy is growing three eggs cubed, everybody wins.

[00:56:54] Everybody wins.

[00:56:55] So is it time for the girls?

[00:56:56] Yeah.

[00:56:57] It's going to be awesome.

[00:56:58] Is it bad for the boys?

[00:57:00] No.

[00:57:00] We're going to have a ride here, man.

[00:57:02] This is going to be great.

[00:57:03] And just so you know, we're already at 42%.

[00:57:05] So 40% of all the businesses in the world are run or led by women.

[00:57:10] And that's about to tip over.

[00:57:11] And when it does, it's going to be amazing.

[00:57:13] Six of the big eight firms on Wall Street now, I believe six of eight, are run by women.

[00:57:18] And the two that are not women are next in line in the queue.

[00:57:22] Mexico, the most Catholic nation in the world.

[00:57:25] I mean, Mexico makes Italy's Catholics look like they're amateur hour, right?

[00:57:28] This is a Catholic-based country who's been dominated by men forever.

[00:57:33] Don't know if you keep up with it.

[00:57:35] They just elected the first female Jewish president.

[00:57:38] How does that work, right?

[00:57:40] It works because the math and the opportunity and everything is there.

[00:57:44] So you can't unsee it when you start looking around.

[00:57:47] But it's nothing to be afraid of, guys.

[00:57:49] This is going to be the most wonderful, economic, evolutionary hyper jump, almost to the point where it's going to be revolutionary.

[00:57:56] But in this case, everybody wins on this.

[00:58:00] And we're going to have a new dynamic that's going to drive our economy into places we've never seen before.

[00:58:06] So buckle up, man.

[00:58:07] This is going to be a fun ride.

[00:58:09] So for your girls, they're going to have a blast.

[00:58:11] And they're going to have barriers moved out of their way.

[00:58:14] We're going to see a shift in thought and mindset.

[00:58:16] You're going to see fewer traditionally successful companies and more transformational companies.

[00:58:21] I think women are about to shake this thing up in a way that's going to change the dynamics of how, going back, how we think about how we think about the way we think about our thinking.

[00:58:29] You know, all that's about to change.

[00:58:30] So it's a good time to be here, man.

[00:58:32] I'm proud of your girls already, and they're going to rock this thing.

[00:58:36] And I think to summarize, I think Bob's comment here wraps it up pretty well, right?

[00:58:41] What Darwin really said is, it's not the strongest species to survive, nor the most intelligent, but those best able to adapt to their changing environment.

[00:58:50] Yep.

[00:58:51] Right?

[00:58:51] I think that's, at the end of the day, that's what you're saying, is the women-owned or the women-run operations are adapting better to the environment that is being presented to them and to us.

[00:59:04] Yeah.

[00:59:04] More of those in the men environment.

[00:59:06] At the same time, the math and everything is hitting them.

[00:59:08] So, again, this is one of those perfect storms that everything's just going to work out and it's going to be fun.

[00:59:13] But the year 2028 is when this shift happens.

[00:59:15] So what we tell people is, what are you doing to be prepared?

[00:59:17] You know, luck favors the prepared.

[00:59:19] And luck comes from hard work.

[00:59:21] And the harder you work, the more luck you find.

[00:59:23] Do you want to wake up in 2028 and go, ooh, what just happened?

[00:59:27] Or do you wake up and think, I'm glad I started working on this thing a couple years ago and getting my culture and everybody else ready?

[00:59:34] And that's what we do.

[00:59:34] That's what we help people do is, what can we work on to make you a transformational company who will be best prepared when this shift happens?

[00:59:43] Because you don't want to have an economy grow 3x cubed and you're sitting around going, should we be paying attention to this?

[00:59:51] No, you should be on the cutting edge of it.

[00:59:53] And sales will be easier than it's ever been before, too, because when that extinction event occurs for those people that aren't relevant, you're going to have more business and more opportunity than you can get to.

[01:00:03] So, yeah, Darwin was right.

[01:00:05] It's about adjust, adapt, and overcome.

[01:00:07] And it's happening right in front of us.

[01:00:10] Brandon, go ahead.

[01:00:11] I'm just saying, what I'm seeing is that all this makes sense, too, with the amount of tech change that's taking place and how it affects humans.

[01:00:23] The more the female approach to helping humans go through this overwhelming change makes a lot of sense.

[01:00:33] Oh, yeah.

[01:00:34] Right?

[01:00:34] So we've got all this tech change.

[01:00:37] We have all this economic change.

[01:00:39] We have all this information change.

[01:00:41] Like, kids now, they're more equipped than ever with information.

[01:00:47] There's all these variables that are affecting people that the old patriarchal way of handling things of just get shit done, pull up your big boy underwear, make things happen.

[01:01:02] And it's not working.

[01:01:04] And you're seeing it happening.

[01:01:06] And this relates, Tom, to what you and I have been talking about for the last several years in sales is so much of the sales approach, the leadership approach, was pedal faster.

[01:01:17] Yeah.

[01:01:18] Do more.

[01:01:19] Do it better.

[01:01:20] Do faster.

[01:01:20] Hire more people.

[01:01:21] Our spreadsheets say if we have 20 people making this many calls, we're going to hit our numbers.

[01:01:28] But they're looking at data that wasn't relevant anymore because people on the other end don't want to talk to you because they can get all their information they want right here.

[01:01:38] So I'm just I'm seeing how all these variables are coming, come together to make sense.

[01:01:44] And you've packaged it up, I think, in a way to make sense out of everything that's going on is that leadership has to change styles.

[01:01:52] Yeah.

[01:01:53] And this this more feminine or female approach makes sense because of the way human beings operate.

[01:02:01] Oh, 100 percent.

[01:02:02] And I'll tell you this one thing before we wrap up.

[01:02:04] I think it's important.

[01:02:04] I always get asked this question.

[01:02:06] People always say, is this part of diversity, equity, inclusion?

[01:02:09] I'm like, oh, here we go.

[01:02:11] Let me tell you, let me put my economics hat on, my Dr. Don hat on.

[01:02:16] And I'm a little bit known for being somewhat unfiltered.

[01:02:19] So I apologize if anybody doesn't like what I'm about to say.

[01:02:22] But this is the truth.

[01:02:24] The economy does not care about diversity because the economy is already diverse.

[01:02:28] The economy can't understand why we're having the conversation because the economy is like a giant energy ball that's going to go to where the opportunity is.

[01:02:36] And when I'm lecturing, I can see some students sometimes get uncomfortable or some businesses go, I don't know about that.

[01:02:41] But I'm like, look, I'm a middle aged white, although slightly tan, blue eyed dude.

[01:02:46] OK, man, I am the smallest minority on the planet.

[01:02:49] I am less than one tenth of one percent of the population.

[01:02:53] And people go, oh, well, how does that work?

[01:02:55] I'm like, OK, if there's eight billion people and most of them live in Africa, China, the Indian nation and the Indian subcontinent, start doing the math.

[01:03:03] And they're like, huh.

[01:03:04] I'm like, OK, European colonialization and banking.

[01:03:07] I get your vibe.

[01:03:09] OK, they didn't share that with me.

[01:03:11] You know, so I was never I'm the poor Scottish immigrant kid.

[01:03:15] You know, they came over during the potato famines.

[01:03:17] And I mean, I'm sorry, I missed that boat.

[01:03:19] But let me tell you what economy does care about.

[01:03:21] The economy cares about inclusion because inclusion is opportunity to capture more energy.

[01:03:28] So when you talk about diversity, equity and inclusion, diversity, the economy doesn't understand because it's already there.

[01:03:34] That's a conversation we're having, spinning our wheels, trying to justify some emotional attachment.

[01:03:39] And there are some cases where people run into it.

[01:03:42] It's just bad.

[01:03:42] There's jerks in the world.

[01:03:43] Sorry.

[01:03:44] But if you say to yourself, what is this play really about from sales?

[01:03:48] What is this ultimate Darwinistic adaptation that's happening?

[01:03:53] Man, it's about inclusion.

[01:03:55] It's about saying that this new phenomenon that's about to happen, it's going to be so inclusive that I might be wrong on the low side of 9x.

[01:04:05] I really might be.

[01:04:07] It might be instead of 3x cubed, it might be 9x cubed.

[01:04:11] I don't know.

[01:04:12] So 3x cubed is the minimum because the economy doesn't understand why we're even talking about diversity.

[01:04:18] The economy looks for, thrives for, is desperate for inclusion.

[01:04:24] And that's what's about to happen.

[01:04:25] We're about to see an economy move in a direction where organizations and people are going to stay longer, work harder, be more productive with this incredible passion to be transformational.

[01:04:35] Because this female leadership shift is going to be there at the exact same time the economy moves in a different direction.

[01:04:42] And luck does favor the prepared.

[01:04:44] So go back to fist pump and all the stuff that you guys do.

[01:04:46] That's part of the preparation.

[01:04:48] That's part of saying, what can I do to be better to further embrace this thing and make it work for me?

[01:04:55] So my organization, male or female or both or whatever, our transformational mindset has gone beyond the frustration.

[01:05:03] And we're so committed to serving as many people as we can, knowing that there's an opportunity that sometimes we can't do it.

[01:05:10] But they made a good choice.

[01:05:12] But there's so much opportunity out there for us.

[01:05:14] It's bigger than what we can get to.

[01:05:16] We're going to do it.

[01:05:17] But luck favors the prepared.

[01:05:19] So you've got to ask yourself, what are you doing now to be prepared for 2028?

[01:05:25] No, by the way, if you haven't woken up yet, that's 36 months away.

[01:05:28] It's going to be here before you know it.

[01:05:32] So if you remember 2022, that's the same distance as 2028 is in the future.

[01:05:37] So it seems like yesterday, but it's not.

[01:05:39] So I tell people all the time, buckle up, guys.

[01:05:42] It's going to be the best time ever for sales, for opportunities and everything else.

[01:05:46] So it's changing.

[01:05:48] Very compelling.

[01:05:50] Hey, I wanted to say one thing, though, to wrap up, Brandon, what you were talking about.

[01:05:54] And, Don, I want your take on this.

[01:05:57] As Brandon knows, I like to simplify things.

[01:05:59] So this may be ultra simple along the way.

[01:06:02] But I think our business and our sales world in particular has been run off of, like you were saying, Brandon, results.

[01:06:10] Do more.

[01:06:11] Pedal faster.

[01:06:12] Get more stats.

[01:06:13] What does that pipeline look like?

[01:06:14] How do it grow?

[01:06:15] And what I hear you saying, Don, is the world is transitioning from results to relevance.

[01:06:21] Yeah.

[01:06:22] And if you look at, you know, and it would be interesting to see even how companies report.

[01:06:27] You know, Carson's talked a lot about this, right?

[01:06:30] A lot of his sales meetings, he doesn't go in and, well, tell me your pipeline and show me how many, you know.

[01:06:35] He's looking at how relevant have you been with your customers and your prospects.

[01:06:39] What relationships have you built?

[01:06:41] What conversations have you had?

[01:06:44] Those are the metrics and things that he's looking at in his organization versus how many phone calls or how big is your opportunity list, which we all know is a bunch of BS anyway because it's not really relevant opportunity.

[01:06:57] Right.

[01:06:58] Is that the safe way to look at this is that we are moving from a world of results to relevance?

[01:07:03] Yeah.

[01:07:03] And I would take the measure.

[01:07:05] I'm all about data over dogma, right?

[01:07:07] So you've got to be able to look at the data and not the dogma.

[01:07:10] You've got to measure it, right.

[01:07:11] Yeah.

[01:07:11] There's some way.

[01:07:12] And, you know, you can't grow anything if you can't measure it, right?

[01:07:14] You just can't.

[01:07:15] So you've got to have those metrics in place.

[01:07:17] But I think that transformational concept that we're running into with this new economy is going to be, well, wait a minute.

[01:07:22] What metrics are out there?

[01:07:24] If you think that you're going out there and your metric that you've been basing yourself is all about price, when we know that now price is not as relevant as it used to be for most things.

[01:07:33] Again, unless you're selling hamburgers.

[01:07:35] Then, you know, what are we tracking in today's world that's relevant to allow us the opportunity to go out there and serve more people?

[01:07:43] And like I said, it's not the same as it was 30 years ago, 20 years ago, 10 years ago.

[01:07:48] And good Lord, probably five years ago.

[01:07:49] I gave this lecture and I'll shut up.

[01:07:51] I promise you after this, but it's pretty cute.

[01:07:54] You show how things change over time.

[01:07:56] And we ask people and 100% of people give the right answer.

[01:07:59] When you wake up in the morning, what's the first thing that you do?

[01:08:02] And everybody instantly says, I look at my phone because your phone is now your alarm clock, your everything else.

[01:08:07] And you look at your phone in 1990, just 34 years ago or almost 35 years ago in a couple of weeks, they asked the same question.

[01:08:15] You know what the first thing that people did in 1990 when they woke up was?

[01:08:20] What?

[01:08:21] They peed.

[01:08:22] They got up.

[01:08:23] They take a pee, yeah.

[01:08:24] They peed.

[01:08:25] They went to the bathroom.

[01:08:26] So somewhere in the past 34 years, peeing is not as important as it used to be, right?

[01:08:30] So it's like, what happened?

[01:08:33] And we see these other dynamic shifts.

[01:08:37] Isn't it that we look at our phone while we walk through your pee?

[01:08:41] Yeah, you could be.

[01:08:42] That's happened.

[01:08:43] Every guy's done that.

[01:08:44] Probably girls too.

[01:08:45] But we just know that everything is changing.

[01:08:48] So if you don't adjust, back to your point, Tom, if you don't adjust those metrics to the relevance of today, if you're holding on to yesterday too long, yeah, you're going to have some problems.

[01:08:58] But you're exactly right.

[01:09:00] You've got to look at those metrics.

[01:09:01] You've got to know what's going on.

[01:09:02] But make sure you're looking at the right metrics because here's the reality.

[01:09:06] There's only three truths or three things to know, especially when it comes to things.

[01:09:12] There's liars.

[01:09:13] There's damn liars.

[01:09:14] And there's statisticians.

[01:09:16] That's it.

[01:09:17] Okay?

[01:09:17] So if you're looking at the statistics, you better be looking at the right statistics because more than likely they're lying too.

[01:09:23] So, you know, you just got to be open and honest with yourself.

[01:09:26] And I think that's what these great transformational businesses do.

[01:09:29] To become relevant, you've got to start with honesty.

[01:09:32] And if you're honest about it and you kind of check your ego a little bit and you commit yourself to helping other people grow, to helping their businesses grow, even if it's not with you, I'll go back to what we said in the beginning, man.

[01:09:44] The universe is going to give you so much opportunity.

[01:09:46] It's crazy.

[01:09:46] And when we're looking out into the future of what's about to happen, sales organizations or any organization, because we're all, like you say, we're all in sales, right?

[01:09:55] Every organization is in sales.

[01:09:56] Every person is in sales.

[01:09:59] Then you've got to say to yourself, wow, what are we going to do to be best prepared for what's coming up?

[01:10:04] And it's a hodgepodge of a lot of things.

[01:10:06] But if you've got that mindset, you change the way you think about how you think about the way you think about your thinking, everything is going to be good.

[01:10:13] I love what Bob just wrote.

[01:10:15] So 63.7% of all businesses are in Acura.

[01:10:18] That's great.

[01:10:19] And you read that from Abraham Lincoln on the internet, too, which is hilarious.

[01:10:22] So thank you, Bob.

[01:10:23] That's a great comment.

[01:10:24] You're right.

[01:10:25] So it's just a great time to be here.

[01:10:28] And the people that are committed to doing the right thing for good people, it's going to be great.

[01:10:33] It's a good time.

[01:10:34] Well, Don, thank you.

[01:10:35] This has been super interesting.

[01:10:37] I'm not doing that.

[01:10:39] I know.

[01:10:40] I know.

[01:10:40] Don, will you come back?

[01:10:42] Because, I mean, seriously, I had a couple more questions and we're totally out of time.

[01:10:46] I think we may have officially gone the longest show ever, the longest ever, which is okay.

[01:10:53] You know, it's more content for us to use afterwards.

[01:10:56] Yeah.

[01:10:57] I'm proud.

[01:10:57] I'm honored.

[01:10:58] And thank you guys for having me.

[01:10:59] I would like, Brandon, I'd really like Don to come back when Carson is here as well.

[01:11:03] Because I think Carson would also bring and really enjoy some of this perspective.

[01:11:08] Because it aligns very much with what we talk about.

[01:11:11] Yeah.

[01:11:12] Well, if Carson was here, we would have been talking about Moneyball for half the show.

[01:11:18] Which I've been, Don, you would have eaten up.

[01:11:21] But, Don, before we go, and I know we've kept you really long, how can our listeners find you and find your books to support you?

[01:11:32] Sure.

[01:11:32] No, thank you so much.

[01:11:33] I really appreciate that.

[01:11:34] I got to support you.

[01:11:36] Anybody who wants to hit me up on LinkedIn, follow me on LinkedIn.

[01:11:38] We've surpassed the limit on followers on LinkedIn.

[01:11:41] So I can't be connected.

[01:11:42] I tried to connect with you and it wouldn't let me today.

[01:11:44] Well, yeah, I've got too many connections.

[01:11:46] You can follow, though, and I'll follow you back.

[01:11:48] But if anybody wants to send me an instant message on LinkedIn and said, hey, I was listening to Mastering Modern Selling.

[01:11:53] I like what you're doing.

[01:11:54] I would love that.

[01:11:55] And what I'll do, if they mention that they saw this and we had this conversation to help support your listeners, I'll send them a free e-copy of the first book, Perfect Plan, which was all about sales.

[01:12:06] And it's still very, very relevant.

[01:12:09] And then in the next two or three weeks, you should be able to go on Amazon and get a copy of Here Come the Girls.

[01:12:14] I'm really excited about both of them, where they've gone.

[01:12:17] But for your listeners, just say, hey, guys, or hey, I'd love to connect with you or follow you, I guess.

[01:12:23] And I heard you on Mastering Modern Selling and can have a free e-copy of the Perfect Plan.

[01:12:27] I'm happy to send it to them instantly.

[01:12:29] And then what about getting Here Come the Girls?

[01:12:32] Amazon?

[01:12:33] In a couple of weeks.

[01:12:34] It's going to be out there.

[01:12:35] Perfect.

[01:12:36] I'm going to go.

[01:12:37] Can I pre-order?

[01:12:38] Can't right now, but maybe in the next week or two, it'll pop up.

[01:12:41] I mean, it's like every day we're sitting there waiting for that email to come in saying it's posted.

[01:12:46] So, Don, here's my last ask.

[01:12:48] I'm going to order the book when it comes in.

[01:12:51] We're both in Atlanta.

[01:12:52] I would love to be able to buy you lunch and have you sign the book and talk about it.

[01:12:56] I would be honored beyond the leap.

[01:12:58] That would be fantastic.

[01:12:59] Excellent.

[01:13:00] I'm going to hold you to it.

[01:13:01] Good.

[01:13:01] Let's do it.

[01:13:02] Cool.

[01:13:03] All right.

[01:13:04] Thanks again.

[01:13:05] Really interesting.

[01:13:06] Brandon, wrap us up.

[01:13:08] Yeah.

[01:13:08] Hey, thank you, everybody.

[01:13:09] I think, Don, easily one of our most exciting, energetic, and great, amazing content.

[01:13:16] So, Dr. Don, thank you so much for joining with us.

[01:13:19] And everyone else, thank you for joining us on another episode.

[01:13:23] I think it's 116 of Mastering Modern Selling.

[01:13:26] And we'll see you next week.

[01:13:27] Take care, everybody.

[01:13:28] Have a good week.

[01:13:29] Thank you.

[01:13:30] Happy holidays.

[01:13:37] Thank you for joining us today on Mastering Modern Selling.

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