MMS #103 - Mastering Leadership and Communication in Sales with Richard Vickers

[00:00:01] Welcome to Mastering Modern Selling, Relationships, Social and AI in the Biocentric Age.

[00:00:08] Join host Brandon Lee, founder of FistThumb, alongside Microsoft's number one social seller, Carson V Heady,

[00:00:14] and Tom Burton, author of the Revenue Zone and co-founder of Leatsmart.

[00:00:19] As we explore the strategies and stories behind successful executives and sales professionals,

[00:00:24] dive in to business growth, personal development and the pursuit of excellence with industry leaders.

[00:00:30] Whether you're a seasoned executive or an aspiring leader, this podcast is your backstage

[00:00:35] past to today's business landscape. This is Mastering Modern Selling, brought to you by FistThumb.

[00:00:50] Okay, welcome back. At the so number 103 Mastering Modern Selling,

[00:00:56] Burton here with Brandon Lee from Orlando, live from Orlando today if I'm not mistaken.

[00:01:01] Live from Orlando today. And Carson is out traveling somewhere. I'm not sure exactly where,

[00:01:08] but he's not here, but we have yet another amazing guest. Richard Vickers, welcome.

[00:01:14] Tom and Brandon thank you guys. And Carson, I think, is in Arizona and I think he specifically

[00:01:19] missed today because I was going to be on here. So I think it's he said that. He's like,

[00:01:24] I didn't really have anywhere to go, but I'll just go to Arizona because Richard's going to be

[00:01:29] today. It's like goodness. Thanks for allowing me to help in and be a part of the conversation,

[00:01:34] fellas. That's going to be his last Carson's last set. That's right. Richard, I'm a so excited for it.

[00:01:40] I mean, you and I did our pre-show call. It feels like two months ago,

[00:01:44] but I was I was so excited after that call. It was wonderful to meet you and get to know you

[00:01:51] and we're going to have some fun today. We're going to have good conversations.

[00:01:55] So I think Bob, welcome Bob. Good to see you. He thinks you're a radio voice. Excellent.

[00:02:02] Yeah, I get that all the time. My mom at one time when I was 12 years old, I think I was upstairs

[00:02:08] doing my radio and television voice. And she told me what I thought was a compliment. She said,

[00:02:15] I'll be so glad when you grow up someday and you're on radio or television. I said, Mom, thank you

[00:02:20] so much. And then she said, Well, at least then I can turn you off and then I realized,

[00:02:25] that was not a compliment. That was half and half. I think. Yeah. Always carry on, Mom's to give

[00:02:32] those like backhand. Yeah. Singers. Yeah. Well, hey, Bob said you had a radio voice. Bob has

[00:02:39] often said that I have a face for radio. So it's much better compliment. You got it.

[00:02:45] So I'm not so sure. So we're going to dig in today, Richard, you know, with and talk about

[00:02:53] your background of sales training, personal brand training, working with sales people. Some

[00:02:59] of the real, I think there's some real tangible things that people are going to be able to take

[00:03:04] away today, which we really like. It's kind of just start us off a little bit about your background

[00:03:09] what you do currently and then we'll we'll jump in here. Yeah, well, it's interesting to Bob

[00:03:14] mention communications is my background. South, I early in my college career, communications and

[00:03:22] theater and the next thing you know, I found out that I might be able to talk and do some selling.

[00:03:27] So I've been carrying the bag as they say on the street for years. And here recently in a latter

[00:03:35] part of my career got into sales training, learning and development. And now, really in charge

[00:03:45] of career development career growth at US foods and onboarding all of our new folks. So that's

[00:03:52] that's a little bit of my background. Ben with US foods for almost 18 years. So how's that for a

[00:03:57] 30 second introduction to my background? Wow. So you currently at US foods as you hire new sales

[00:04:04] people, you're helping them out. Yeah, I'm going to get indoctrinated and training them on

[00:04:09] and is it all part of sales inside outside or outside in outside sales? I just left our sales

[00:04:16] training team to come over to the learning and development side. All of it goes through our learning

[00:04:22] and development. But yeah, as part of the sales training team where we onboarded new sellers,

[00:04:29] every three or four weeks we would bring on a new group of new sellers and teach them the

[00:04:37] US foods culture, US foods way and selling and all of those kind of things. I find it interesting

[00:04:43] Brandon, you probably appreciate this. I did a little research several years ago

[00:04:48] that and this is according to Amazon, right? There's about 100,000 books

[00:04:55] probably over that now. 120,000 books that you can buy currently in print about sales.

[00:05:03] So if you bought all of them, I figured out 20 bucks a book. You know,

[00:05:08] somewhere around a million dollars you would spend on all of these books.

[00:05:14] But that would be a bargain for all of us on this call because companies and corporations

[00:05:21] across the world spend about 2.5 billion a year on sales training. So you could buy all the sales

[00:05:30] books for about a million bucks or 2.5 billion, all of the corporations all yeah, we're talking

[00:05:37] grandeur, we're talking John Deere, Harley Davidson, cars, pharmaceuticals, food sales,

[00:05:44] 2.5 billion a year on sales training. That's a chunk of change.

[00:05:52] Yeah, that's a huge market.

[00:05:55] And I find, I mean this isn't totally on our agenda but it just made me think that I find

[00:06:01] it's kind of like sales training and personal development. It's like we read, we read, we read,

[00:06:08] but we failed to implement. I mean, I've been telling my kids who are in college it's like,

[00:06:14] you know, I've got my three key books that I read and I keep reading them over and over again.

[00:06:18] And I just realized after all the years of having so much pride in how many books I read for

[00:06:23] a month, really realizing I was completely full of crap because I retained nothing.

[00:06:28] I was just reading pages. Now I have three books that I just kind of keep reading over and over again

[00:06:35] and trying to go deep instead of wide. And I think in a lot of cases and sales it can

[00:06:42] find one person that you like and follow and kind of take their stuff and follow it, become more

[00:06:49] disciplined. Yeah, John Maxwell's that person for me, I have his entire library, I love all of

[00:06:55] his leadership and communication stuff. But for me, I figured out that and maybe this is

[00:07:04] arguable point and maybe somebody would disagree with me, but professional growth and professional

[00:07:10] development. Most people use those words and those phrases interchangeably. But what you said is exactly

[00:07:19] true, development refers to training or going to seminars or reading some books and get some

[00:07:26] efficacious. All of that's great. Growth is when you push through that or apply those learned results

[00:07:36] and actually put it into practice and you start practicing it each day and you start getting

[00:07:45] results and maybe some promotions and job changes like Carson talks about. So development

[00:07:53] refers to those actions that create growth. Maybe that's my working definition today. I'm not sure.

[00:08:00] You sound like our friend John Maxwell right there. Maybe I picked that up from him. I'm not

[00:08:07] really maybe I should credit him just in case. I don't think it might as long as you picked it up.

[00:08:17] All right, well, hey Brandon, do we want to let's welcome to everybody who's listening live

[00:08:23] and Bootsie and Atlanta. Of course Bob, who's always here and others, jump in.

[00:08:29] Please ask good. I think this is a show to be asking questions because I think what we were talking about

[00:08:35] prior to going live here, I already have like a page and a half of questions just from our

[00:08:40] conversation. So I think there's going to be a lot of good opportunity for questions here today.

[00:08:45] Yeah, and we forget sometimes we get so excited with our guests. We started the show and we're

[00:08:51] 103 episodes into it because we want to bring these guests and these conversations to our audience.

[00:08:59] So if you're on the podcast, throw things in the comments down under the show notes or come

[00:09:04] join us on our LinkedIn, our YouTube page. But if you're here live with us or throw it in the

[00:09:10] comments and we do our best to bring them up on screen and help let you join the conversation.

[00:09:16] Yes, better at it than we are anyway. And lastly, before Richard, we go in here, I want to take

[00:09:22] Brandon Fiss bump for again, sponsoring us this week. This bump is paying for all the producers

[00:09:28] and the production and everything like that, it's very appreciated. So thank you. Yeah, one of these days

[00:09:34] when these days we're actually going to have a Fiss bump commercial on here so people know really what we do.

[00:09:40] Well, you know, let's one step at a time, one step at a time. They did the next 100 episodes.

[00:09:45] That's right. All right, Richard. So with all the training and onboarding that you're doing,

[00:09:51] what are some of the key lessons that you've learned? And what do you see or some of the biggest

[00:09:56] challenges that is people come on and new sales people come on that you feel like you have to overcome

[00:10:02] to get them to be effective and it's hard, right? Sales has always been hard. I think it's

[00:10:08] harder than ever, which is why we're doing what we do the show is how do you use some of the

[00:10:13] baby rides above the noise attack there? Yeah, I've got a small philosophy that I kind of live

[00:10:21] and breathe by and I'll say it and then I'll explain it. I have found over the years no matter what you do

[00:10:29] in sales or in life that money flows to where needs are being met period. I'm going to say it again,

[00:10:38] money flows to where needs are being met. Like if I have a need to go on vacation,

[00:10:44] I'm going to contact my vacation planner and she's going to help me pick out some spots and we're

[00:10:52] going to shoot. So my money is going to flow there because I have a need to go on vacation.

[00:10:58] Back in the day, I remember churches would never do a bathroom remodel or a Sunday school remodel.

[00:11:06] They would do a brand new building program and all by the way, the bathroom would get remodeled

[00:11:12] in that building program because people aren't going to give their money to something

[00:11:17] that is so small and isn't meeting a need. They want to give their money to something that is

[00:11:22] going to be big and effective and they can see it. So I think for most sellers, I asked this question,

[00:11:30] are you meeting needs? Because if you're meeting a need, people have a tendency to open up their

[00:11:38] wallets and will spend money where needs are being met. And I hope that philosophy makes sense

[00:11:49] and I hope it hits home with somebody because a lot of times our new sellers will get so

[00:11:58] mixed up in the systems and the process and all of the things. When you leave a client or a

[00:12:06] new prospect, ask yourself the question, have I provided any value and am I meeting any needs?

[00:12:16] Interesting. So I have a question for you related that in your current job and I apologize if I don't.

[00:12:23] So US food, your customer is what commercial food restaurants, things like that. I assume like

[00:12:30] Cisco and those types are your competitors or the correct. So what would be a how would you take

[00:12:37] if I was being onboarded? How do you help somebody that's kind of in like a commodity type of

[00:12:42] situation? They're really positioned that value and show that hey, why would you buy for me versus

[00:12:48] a competitor? Yeah and it goes back to really understanding your product, understanding all of the

[00:12:57] things that whatever company A has or company B has but diving into where that need is for

[00:13:07] the customer and for most food customers or restaurant tours or hospitals or whatever that may be.

[00:13:14] Most of the time it is finding out where they have a void or that white space or where their

[00:13:23] focus is so much on their product. I tell chefs all the time you can create a $25

[00:13:29] salad but unless your customer, Mr. Mrs. Chef, once to spend $25 on that salad,

[00:13:38] you may be just wasting a bunch of ingredients and a bunch of lettuce when you have to understand

[00:13:45] what do your customers want? And that's a big part of that sales process is understanding

[00:13:54] what your customer but understanding what their in-the-customer is interested in spending their

[00:14:00] money on. I think that's a huge point for B to be in general, right? Because generally in B to

[00:14:08] be, you have business to business to consumer or to another business better there. Tom here,

[00:14:15] your tap tap here, there you go. How about now? Yeah you're good. It always just needs a little bit of

[00:14:21] the you're loving touch and then it's out there. No, I get excited my arms start flying around

[00:14:26] and then it knocks the thing. I had an atrack player back when I was in grade school and I did

[00:14:30] do that. Oh well, give back to what you were saying Tom, that was important. No, I was just

[00:14:37] so there's a layer right? As a salesperson knowing not only what your customer does but what they do

[00:14:45] right and how they actually create value to your point there, that gives you a very

[00:14:52] interesting edge I think over just going with your products are. Yeah and I encourage

[00:14:59] creator, my daughter is going through nursing school and last night she had me sit down

[00:15:07] and I made her walk in as if I was a patient and she's taking my blood pressure and she's tapping

[00:15:14] and listening to my lungs and and she's doing all the things that a brand new nursing student does,

[00:15:23] and then I stopped her, she's 22. I said why do you think I had you do that?

[00:15:30] And she said well to hear myself out loud say those things because I'm going to be saying

[00:15:35] them to real patients and to get comfortable with it. I said ding ding ding ding ding what do we have

[00:15:40] for our journey? That was that's the first reason I said it in number two is once you get comfortable

[00:15:46] hearing your voice say those things as me as your patient you will be able to do that with a real

[00:15:52] patient and a lot of our new sellers or and even veteran sellers forget to have those mock

[00:16:03] conversations and talk through strategies because it sounds whether you're a nurse or whether you're

[00:16:10] a seller or whether I'm working on your computer understand and I think this is a lost art

[00:16:18] because I'll do trainings all over the country and I'll tell people hey we're going to have

[00:16:24] a mock conversation they're like oh that sounds fun and I said it's basically role play and they go oh

[00:16:31] because mock conversations are role play right and we have this in our mind that role plays do

[00:16:38] not have any benefit but I told just like I told my nursing student daughter getting comfortable

[00:16:45] and confident where does that confidence come from it comes from hey I did this with my

[00:16:50] dad last night and I understand he was being goofy with me but all of a sudden it flows out of

[00:16:57] her mouth and she understands she hears the words coming out of her mouth and it becomes a

[00:17:01] vote and it becomes practice and then it's a safe I was a safe place to fail with my daughter

[00:17:08] so this week when she does this in front of 30 other students and her five professors

[00:17:15] she's going to be a lot more comfortable because she practice in a safe space so

[00:17:21] yeah I agree I mean when I had my call center the the mock the role play was part of it and I

[00:17:30] believe we had to do they had to do at least 12 role plays with different people and

[00:17:38] and from different some of the more experienced sellers had to participate and pretend to be

[00:17:43] the buyer and give a real life situation and there's nothing like consistency in a role play

[00:17:49] to give you confidence and real life totally agree with that hey Tom I'm going to go back a little

[00:17:56] bit because I think this is a great great conversation par bob said a little while ago I think we

[00:18:01] make sales harder than we need to we get in our way too often and we use tech as a crunch

[00:18:09] Richard what do your thoughts around that well I have this three step philosophy that

[00:18:16] um and I people are going to think you set me up for this but it I have this philosophy about

[00:18:25] how to sell anything to anyone and I mean anything literally to anyone because we get so

[00:18:35] like if I'm selling water in this water bottle with a little bit of flavoring I know everything

[00:18:40] about the ingredients of this plastic I know about the water bottle and I get so consumed with

[00:18:47] the features and benefits of this product that I get so excited like John Candy right and I

[00:18:54] squish it and I love it and I lose the sale um do either of you gentlemen know anything about boats

[00:19:07] a little bit okay awesome what about you Brandon anything about boats I've owned one yeah I know nothing

[00:19:18] about boats so I absolutely nothing uh I've written in one and I've been a passenger and I think

[00:19:28] I've driven one a couple of times do you call it driving a boat I think you should call it driving

[00:19:33] boat um it's on the boat I guess yeah so I know nothing about boats but I could it and I do this

[00:19:40] practice with new sellers or and veteran sellers because this gets them out of their head I'll say

[00:19:50] Brandon wants to buy a boat sell him a boat and then person's like how am I going to sell I don't

[00:19:57] know anything a Brandon what's your what's your you know if you're gonna be buying a boat

[00:20:02] what's your favorite color what would you want to bring green you want to green boat that's awesome

[00:20:08] and so I write down green boat then what are you gonna do with this boat Brandon are you going to

[00:20:13] ski or you're gonna go fishing what what is it probably take the kids around the lake

[00:20:20] oh yeah so some fun you got a green boat you want to use for fun with the kids around the lake anything

[00:20:28] else you know do you have any kind of horsepower or motor not sure outboard motor for me generally

[00:20:39] okay outboard motor so right now I know three things to sell you on a boat that I know nothing about

[00:20:47] how in the world can I think I could get you at least somewhere down the path of buying a boat

[00:20:54] and all I have done is just ask you some questions yeah if I knew about voting and I knew

[00:21:03] all the things about outboard motors I might get so excited when you start talking about boats

[00:21:12] then I start selling you something or the best feature or the best something that I think

[00:21:18] but because I know nothing about boats I am forced to what I'm forced to ask you questions

[00:21:26] and you turn sell yourself yeah and I think just simple things like

[00:21:34] band you know I learned I learned that early in my career and then somewhere in my career I thought

[00:21:40] I was too good for it until I realized that it's such a foundational tool to use to ask the right

[00:21:49] questions and learn about the buyer and about their need and about their timing and about who's

[00:21:57] on the other side of the table and a lot of the information I need to know yeah and at at the end of

[00:22:05] the day we're we're all human beings not human doing so I think it's connecting to our human

[00:22:14] desire mass laws hierarchy of needs but also our human desire is to avoid pain and somewhat

[00:22:24] seek pleasure whether that's food or our entertainment or whatever the case may be we naturally

[00:22:32] want to avoid pain and seek some sort of pleasure so I will trade something of value like money

[00:22:41] or currency for something I don't have the which in this case we're talking about product a

[00:22:49] boat or a food product or whatever the case may be so we've got to take some time to understand

[00:22:57] the customer's pain points right absolutely I think I think you're a point about

[00:23:05] this is prevalent in the tech world right we we all understand our technology and we get so

[00:23:13] excited about our technology and what it does and features and all that and the customer on the

[00:23:18] other side doesn't even know anything about at all what the technology is that we're bringing to it

[00:23:25] and we overwhelm them fairly quickly and it doesn't really become a conversation it just becomes a

[00:23:32] brain dump of information to the other to the other side so I think again going back to your

[00:23:38] sales training I would think that you'd almost want to start people way over on that simple part

[00:23:43] and not try and make a experts on how to make a five star steas or salad or something

[00:23:49] that they're going to go in and try and sell it and most people think and I'm a communicator

[00:23:57] I love as you can tell I love to talk I love to communicate most people think that the art of

[00:24:04] selling is communication and I think that is a big part of it but the oxy the oxy moron of the

[00:24:12] day is that great communicators typically are the best listeners and once you learn that oxy moron

[00:24:24] that it's not about what's coming out as much as it is how much you're able to ask those questions to

[00:24:32] sell you that boat and just listen to those needs because one of my favorite phrases is so if I

[00:24:44] heard you correctly and trust me when I say this I try to implement this in my home life with my

[00:24:51] daughters and my wife so this is advice that you can use at home or at work in the corporate world

[00:25:00] or selling if I heard you correctly and then reframing what I heard and not doing it in a playkating

[00:25:08] way but truly listening and playing it back because once somebody feels heard there's something

[00:25:16] that happens inside of us as human beings I become much more open to hearing you if I think you've heard

[00:25:27] me yeah I mean it it's one of my favorite sayings and especially on the show is people don't care

[00:25:38] what you know unless they know that you care and you know I I talk a lot about I believe that

[00:25:47] aliens are so important and they tend to get I feel like they get pushed aside a lot of times into

[00:25:54] more serious conversations more serious points to make but if we're not aware of how people on the

[00:26:01] other side of us are feeling we're going to lose out I mean you know Tom would I I love is it we've

[00:26:08] in the last probably eight to ten episodes that we've had when we've had like Carl leave on here

[00:26:16] he was talking about just just be curious simplified it all if you could just be curious

[00:26:22] and imagine the person on the other side of you is in their eight year old self

[00:26:27] and you're in your eight year old self and you're just having a conversation like so many things

[00:26:33] would get better you know I feel like we just keep getting simplified like we we came out of the

[00:26:40] the teens and coming into the 2000s we had all this hype around venture capital and private equity

[00:26:47] and tech and startups and entrepreneurship and everybody was fighting to become the next freaking

[00:26:53] unicorn and I was just really coming back to you know what it's all about people

[00:27:00] it's all about conversations I mean I love I love what you said Richard the best communicators

[00:27:05] of the ones that listen most I think that's why God gave me big ears to keep reminding me to

[00:27:11] listen more and talk less but yeah I really appreciate you saying that just just getting back

[00:27:17] to that to this simple what and I read this and I wish I could credit it some place

[00:27:25] Warren Buffett was at a conference of 26 to 36 year olds and arguably and I'm sure there's

[00:27:35] he's one of the richest investors and definitely wisest investors business man of

[00:27:43] at least my generation and he was asked to speak to this group of 26 to 36 to 40 year olds

[00:27:52] and what was interesting is that you have the Q&A at the end and they said Mr Buffett, Mr Buffett

[00:28:04] what kind of advice would you give and man the place supposedly got super quiet because most

[00:28:11] people are thinking he's about to drop some you know yeah he's gonna drop some kind of financial

[00:28:19] investing wisdom from the man himself and as only he could do he said I just would love it

[00:28:30] if all of you in this room would learn to connect human to human and learn to become a

[00:28:40] world-class communicator you can heard a pindra just a hush over the room so think about that

[00:28:52] learn to connect human to like like what we're doing connecting human to human I barely know the

[00:28:59] view and already I feel a sense of trust and a sense of admiration and connection but learning

[00:29:09] that is a lost art and communicating is a lost art you know that reminds me office

[00:29:18] do you guys know who Henry Cravis is? Colbert Colbert Cravis and Roberts?

[00:29:24] leverage by all firm out in New York City they did the whole RGR and a fiscal thing back

[00:29:29] and I think the 80s or whatever it was but anyways Henry Cravis is alumni of my tiny little

[00:29:34] college and I went to in California and he spoke and same same concept every you know they

[00:29:40] think Q&A and somebody said what when you're biggest piece of advice for us is undergrads and he

[00:29:51] said B.A programs in the country and we send them all over the world representing us and goes

[00:29:59] but here's the one thing that they're really really poor at they don't know how to connect with

[00:30:05] other people hmm so if you guys could you you've got to figure out how to communicate

[00:30:11] and how to connect with other people and that was 30 plus years ago and I remember sitting in

[00:30:18] audience going and I changed I mean it was a liberal art school so instead of a business program

[00:30:25] I was on an economics program but I shifted to psychology and communication because of that

[00:30:33] statement I also hated economics like that was just my good good you know push over but I think

[00:30:40] that's what you're saying as well and that's that's what with your example like it's just such a lost art

[00:30:45] right now and it makes us sound old and let's use that to springboard then into Richard some of the

[00:30:54] things we were chatting about earlier before we went live is personality types right because in order

[00:31:00] to have that quality of communication brand and that you're talking about you got to know a

[00:31:05] little bit about who you are and who you're communicating to so kind of take us through how you use

[00:31:11] personality types the disprofiles all of that and yeah excuse me how that sets a foundation

[00:31:18] for everything yeah I've been teaching a form of this for 20 years there's a lot of different

[00:31:27] personality tests personality profiles that are out there colors you know the red yellow blue what

[00:31:34] your color of your personality myers brigs most corporations probably 10 20 years ago use

[00:31:40] myers brigs but a form of personality tests has been around since apocrates and since we're talking

[00:31:48] about nursing and doctors earlier apocrates the oldest doctor divided our personalities into four

[00:31:55] distinct personality types and most of us sell or operate in our communication style or our

[00:32:08] personality type so the disc personality type just to give a your audience a little preview

[00:32:15] the disc personality d i s c it stands for dominant influencer the s stands for steady or steadiness

[00:32:26] and what's what I'm seeing the sea stands for conscientious and you know think about the dominant

[00:32:33] personality type if they had a theme song the dominant personality would would sing

[00:32:40] Elvis's a little less conversational a little more action right that's the dominant

[00:32:44] per day they just bulldoze through things they're direct the results oriented the eyes that outgoing

[00:32:51] if they had a theme song it'd be celebrate good times come on it's that outgoing personality

[00:32:58] the look at me talking with my hands guess which personality I am that I personality right and

[00:33:04] the s is that steady they like things that that steady state that even tempered or

[00:33:10] they have a tendency to be patient and the conscientious is that analytical detailed

[00:33:17] that that's the disc d i s c dominant influencer steady and conscient so I told Tom before we start

[00:33:26] recording the best way to describe personality for me is if four distinct personalities were in a

[00:33:34] car on a road trip and you're not going to have four we're all a mixture of

[00:33:44] all of those personalities we it's just how we are as human beings but if four distinct

[00:33:49] of those personalities the d the i the s and the c were in a car and on road trip and they had a

[00:33:54] flat tire the d of course the dominant personality is driving the car he's just one hey everybody

[00:34:00] just get in I'm taking this there and he gets out and says hey we've had a flat tire this is

[00:34:05] what we need to do and so the s that steady personality they don't like chaos so the s are even

[00:34:11] tempered they're accommodating so they say hey I've got AAA on my phone do you want me to call

[00:34:16] him or can I put out the road flares what do you need me to do and the c gets out their xl

[00:34:22] spreadsheet and says no wait a minute we're going to miss two bathroom breaks on this trip now

[00:34:27] that conscientious personalities like okay we're going to have to drive 80 miles an hour into 75

[00:34:32] miles an hour to make it to our lunch appointment that I made last week for this trip and they're

[00:34:37] precise they've got system they they the c that conscientious man and of course the i grabs their

[00:34:43] iPhone and they're like hey everybody get in the picture come on this is awesome I'm live streaming

[00:34:48] this right now this is just an amazing thing so that's the four distinct in a very short two minute

[00:34:55] story of the personality types and all of us have a tendency to sell in our type it took me a long time

[00:35:04] because I wasn't eye personality that influenced her personality and so I thought everybody

[00:35:10] wanted me to come in and sell just bombastically until I ran into a customer that was a sea

[00:35:18] person out that conscientious they were analytical and they wanted all the details now if I was

[00:35:24] all into an eye it was great because I could come in and just you know as they say smoking mirrors

[00:35:32] and but a sea personality wanted me to say hey how's this going to end up on my bottom line

[00:35:38] how's this going to profit my business how is this going to work into my new menu what

[00:35:43] what kind of profit margins am I going to make on this now the deep personality if I

[00:35:49] tried to get way too often the weeds that dominant personality they they want to know

[00:35:54] give me the facts what's in it for me I want to know what's the results now I'm either going

[00:36:00] to make the decision real quick or get out of here and the S personality wants you to get to know

[00:36:05] them that steady personality they're they're more even tempered and man I notice how I change my voice

[00:36:13] even talking about the S person I I even lower my voice and I slow my pace

[00:36:20] for an S personality because I my I personality that outgoing enthusiasm man the S start

[00:36:29] physically they they even in a room start backing up so imagine sellers out there trying to sell

[00:36:39] in their own person out because that's what we're comfortable with we're comfortable selling

[00:36:44] our communication style if if I had to break it down into anything your personality

[00:36:49] it's one thing to learn what you are and how you operate it's a whole other world to start

[00:36:56] picking up small clues maybe what your customers personality type and how they like to be communicated

[00:37:03] with wow I did all of that in five minutes I can't I was impressed no that was very

[00:37:08] impressive you know as I was listening to that though I think about a sales person who's not aware

[00:37:14] of that right sales people tend to gravitate and they tend to have meetings and do meetings

[00:37:21] and sell to people that are similar to them right so if you like to go to lunch and I like to

[00:37:26] go to lunch and have a good time I'll tend to call you versus maybe 10 other people that are

[00:37:32] on my list and I really should call and go visit or they're there right so you tend to gravitate to

[00:37:37] those people to your to your style 100% and I try to like one of my best friends in the world he

[00:37:49] is a sea personality and the reason why I gravitate towards him is that I have learned that if I just

[00:37:56] surround myself with a bunch of eyes and you know we we party in laugh and have a good time we're

[00:38:05] enthusiastic we're high spirited what we miss all the details so as you mature in your growth not only

[00:38:13] is a human being but as a seller or in your workspace you start seeing the giftings and the

[00:38:21] strengths and the communication style of other people and you start realizing they can help me

[00:38:29] yeah no in fact that opens the door up to the more higher quality I think communication

[00:38:35] that we're talking about before and you hear this a lot right I mean US food ultimately is a

[00:38:43] distributor right and I have a software company we sell entirely to wholesale distributors so

[00:38:50] a lot of what in in that world the wholesale distribution world it's all about increasing the wallet

[00:38:56] share right how do I get more from that customer how do I find the white space if you will

[00:39:02] where there's opportunity and a lot of sellers tend to shy away if you will from really what could

[00:39:11] be very very large white space opportunities or wallet share opportunities just because they don't

[00:39:15] feel comfortable on who they're talking to but if you just do that quick evaluation that you're talking

[00:39:21] about there it kind of okay I can go I can go do this right this is you know you don't they don't

[00:39:26] have to be your best friend but you can have a high quality business relationship with yeah and

[00:39:32] Brandon you mentioned this while ago the C-suite I'll never forget there was a president of a company

[00:39:37] that I was trying to make inroads with and and just really trying to develop a relationship and man

[00:39:44] here I am an influencer personality and I remember man knocking on his door hey do you see the game

[00:39:52] this weekend Charlie is it was amazing I was like oh my god and next week I come by and I

[00:40:01] hey you know man what did you guys do this weekend it was a great weekend to get out and do some

[00:40:05] gardening but I thought my god this guy hates my guts I am never going to get anywhere with this

[00:40:17] president until one time his door happened to be open and I said hey Charlie you know when you get

[00:40:25] five minutes I'd love for you to give me a call I've got this new program that I want to roll out

[00:40:30] and chat with you about it really think it's going to be some great things for your bottom line

[00:40:35] hey come in have a seat oh my god I I think I got a little tear rolling down my cheek I was like oh

[00:40:44] god he likes me had nothing to do with the fact that he liked me I started speaking yet he was a

[00:40:52] D that dominant personality I started speaking his language which was be brief be bold and be

[00:41:01] gone that's a dominant personality's language and it clicked with me that it wasn't about somebody

[00:41:11] liking me or not liking me it was about speaking their language the ability to resonate

[00:41:18] through the communication right that's it's not it's not what yeah I get whether they like you

[00:41:23] or even like your product or anything like that let's see ability to resonate with that

[00:41:28] communication yeah a hundred percent and speak their language so many times whether you're a

[00:41:41] man and you want to learn the Spanish language and be able to they appreciate you let me give you an

[00:41:50] example my brother's death he was three years old ear drums measles it was a long story and

[00:42:00] he and I were not very close growing up he was ten years older than me and he went to Missouri school

[00:42:08] for the death and learned sign language ASL and I thought it was fascinating and I started learning

[00:42:17] ASL and understanding how to communicate with my brother that tore down a wall that was between us

[00:42:33] and it wasn't just him not being able to hear me it tore down a wall of my brother is speaking

[00:42:41] my language and I'll never forget when I asked him to be my best man and I ended up having the opportunity

[00:42:50] to be his best man in his wedding he told me how important it was for him when I understood ASL

[00:43:00] and was able to communicate in his language our family dynamic changed and imagine a customer

[00:43:16] and I tell you that's the reason why I tell you that story is imagine a customer feeling trust

[00:43:24] and feeling heard and seen Brandon like you were talking about whenever we're able to

[00:43:30] communicate in their language and not just shook some product of a plastic bottle that has some flavor

[00:43:37] and so I we could end right there if we wanted to that was so good yeah and I want Brandon I want

[00:43:50] to shift to personal brand while we have some time left here but Richard I tell me you use a

[00:44:00] different wording but I'm going to say the same thing tell me if this is what I've been hearing

[00:44:04] for the last 45 minutes right is bluster right now really as and I think this would be the

[00:44:12] core of probably how you onboard a new salesperson right understand who you are

[00:44:18] understand who you're talking to learn how to communicate between those different combinations

[00:44:24] between you and the others that are there and going back to your simplicity you know thing

[00:44:29] before about keeping it with a boat and all that stuff just keep it simple and listen right

[00:44:36] and if you train I would think that you could take really anybody who doesn't add no sales

[00:44:42] experience or whatever and make them reasonably effective with just those things it by hearing

[00:44:49] you ride on those things are oh my gosh thank you for I'm a sea by the way

[00:44:56] I and I appreciate my seas you're probably riding down notes and figuring out where in the

[00:45:03] world is this eye personality going and you probably have all the details laid out for me

[00:45:09] you're exactly right because like Brandon was kind of a looting tube before

[00:45:17] so many times we over complicate things and we make the complex even more complex and in my

[00:45:29] mind and maybe it's because I'm just never the smartest person in the room I never have been

[00:45:34] and I never want to be but I try to make the complex so simple because I have to understand it

[00:45:44] and I have to be able to connect human to human and again part of that is because of my eye

[00:45:49] personality that influence her personality so I have to have details in my life they've become my

[00:46:00] friends because I know what I I'm a mess without details and so I've learned that that's a

[00:46:07] weakness and I've got I've got to shore up that weakness in order to operate in my giftedness

[00:46:12] which is what I've done for the last 45 minutes and and so I think your exactly right

[00:46:18] Tom is is taking all those tools in utilizing those to connect human to human and

[00:46:27] once you do that and are you're very sincere and genuine about it I think that's that's where

[00:46:34] the goal is and that's where the relationships thrive that's if you are selling something

[00:46:40] I think that's where the sales that's when I get my wallet out and I open it up because I

[00:46:44] start to see value in what you're bringing to the table and I think you also build trust right at

[00:46:50] the same time along the way so we wanted to talk about personal brand I want to make sure we have

[00:46:56] time for that but I'm in brand and this is something right that we run into as we talk to people

[00:47:02] about personal brand all the time I would think it's the eye to your first now it's very easy for an

[00:47:09] eye to go out and build personal brand and get on LinkedIn and post and be out there and all that

[00:47:16] stuff that is harder I believe maybe it's easy for the deer and the eye but the S and the sea

[00:47:22] it's maybe not so easy for them to get excited about that let's put it that way that's there

[00:47:28] how I work is done here my gosh Tom you just broke that down so incredible but and I'm asking

[00:47:35] both of you because I think Brandon I don't want to put words in your mouth but I would think you're

[00:47:39] more eye oriented for sure and it's so easy for you to just be there and out there and you know all

[00:47:47] the stuff even what you do with your team and all that stuff and I watch that and I go I struggle

[00:47:53] with that right how how do you incorporate personal brand into all of these different personality types

[00:48:00] and make it effective and what are some of the and maybe this is a whole other episode

[00:48:05] that's a great question you know but I love this question because I get it from my

[00:48:11] S's and my C's right because S's and C's have a tendency well the D the dominant and

[00:48:19] the conscientious what you are Tom the D's and C personalities the dominant and conscientious

[00:48:25] they have a tendency to be processed driven not so much people driven and the eye and the S

[00:48:32] their people driven long before their process driven and so my S's and my C's at the bottom

[00:48:45] I'm looking thinking about the circle of the D I S and C how it operates but

[00:48:52] the conscientious and the S personalities have they can be extroverted but that's difficult for them

[00:49:00] most of the time they're within because they love they they love getting things done and how

[00:49:07] can I help you get things done and how can I do things safely as C is like I want to make sure

[00:49:12] everybody's safe the S wants to bring the chaos down so that is a step outside of their comfort zone

[00:49:19] this is a whole different teaching but I will break it down into two minutes I always tell my

[00:49:25] S's and my C personalities if that's their dominant do not ever try to be an I or a D because it will

[00:49:33] be fake and once you start once an S is like oh I'm gonna I love the eyes I want to be an I

[00:49:41] all of a sudden they become inauthentic and they are no longer themselves so for posting or getting out

[00:49:50] on social media I tell my C's to make a list and a time frame of when you are going to post or

[00:49:58] how you're going to post and what that content is because why Tom because you're comfortable

[00:50:03] with that list and your so as a result of the list you do the social by checking off the box

[00:50:13] it's on my list I'm going to check off my box for my S's that steady personality I really try to help

[00:50:21] them understand this is a chance for others to get to know you and man that feeds into that steady

[00:50:28] person out that S because they they they love it when others get they're very cautious about it

[00:50:37] but they love it when others get to know them so you have to feed into whatever that strength

[00:50:41] now a D they're like okay oops I posted something and reposted something I probably shouldn't

[00:50:47] know if man I'm so sorry and you know they're they're just out there doing it and bulldozing it

[00:50:53] now and and I it has a tendency to be a lot simpler for them you know what it's interesting

[00:51:00] for me and I haven't and thought about this before but when you were talking their Richard I think

[00:51:07] we've done a very big disservice by calling this whole thing social media

[00:51:12] oh because you know in like Tom you you'll say oh I tend to be more introverted

[00:51:20] okay what does that have to do with anything just because we call it social media you know

[00:51:26] Tom you you you're a deep thinker and you write really amazing things you come up with frameworks

[00:51:32] you've done it twice you've you've distilled what Richard said into a very simple framework

[00:51:39] like this very naturally that is amazing content for this thing we called social media

[00:51:46] or let's just throw it at this amazing content yeah it's a gift that you should be sharing

[00:51:53] more publicly and more maybe more widely I'm trying to be very cautious with my words to not use

[00:51:59] social and public and anything that leads toward this difference between extraverts and introverts

[00:52:06] so I think in a lot of ways just just calling this LinkedIn and stuff social media is made

[00:52:12] a lot of naturally more introverted people which tend to be more on the essence see and disc

[00:52:18] it's a little bit more oh no no that that's not me and I think that if I think we've done

[00:52:27] a lot of people like you Tom a very big disservice because the stuff that you write and talk

[00:52:32] about needs to be out there yeah no I think you nailed it and you'd brand and say all the time right

[00:52:38] you right into executives CEOs and big companies that are scared of personal brand and LinkedIn

[00:52:47] I agree with you I don't think they're scared of personal brand and LinkedIn I think they're

[00:52:52] scared of what you just went through is I have to now go be a deer and I and I'm not a deer

[00:52:57] and I yeah and that's inherently not natural for me to do and there are some CEOs and executives

[00:53:03] at our DNA isn't it probably is very I mean if you look at the people that have been it's easy

[00:53:08] for you to you know get them on LinkedIn it's it probably is like that yeah I think it comes

[00:53:13] now to reframing brand and I and just like what you did you were very methodical and very

[00:53:19] cautious about choosing a word and the reason why you were you were trying to not just compliment

[00:53:25] Tom but get him to see that natural gifting that he has all you were doing right there was reframing

[00:53:34] his natural giftings into the ability to be able to see and that's what I tried to do

[00:53:41] the checklist and the list and you know on Mondays I'll post to Facebook and on Tuesdays I'll

[00:53:47] post a LinkedIn these thoughts that I had last week when I made this list and curated Richard

[00:53:55] thoughts and God help the person being able to do that so what what you get there is playing

[00:54:02] into your natural communication style because people see through all in authenticity and it's

[00:54:14] quickest way to lose trust and it's the quickest way to lose value that you provide when you start

[00:54:21] being in authentic yeah and what I hear you saying too I think in clarify this for me is

[00:54:30] a lot of people end up being in authentic ignorantly unintentionally and then can't figure out why

[00:54:38] it's not resonating with people yeah and I can think of leaders that try to play in a space

[00:54:47] where it's we used to use this term their wheelhouse their natural strength zone and you were

[00:54:54] talking about branding Tom I for me that your brand is where those three or four magnified but I

[00:55:05] think for most people it it rest in about three I think there's magic in three like for me I'm a mentor

[00:55:13] I'm a communicator and I'm a leader that if I can work in those three areas I will leave this call

[00:55:22] energized because I was able to work in those three areas now do I need to work on my weakness is

[00:55:28] sure that my organization skills I wrote down a couple of things you wrote you set a while ago

[00:55:33] Brandon and Tom and so I work on those things but to play in that string zone and I've watched

[00:55:40] leaders try to be something they're not and play in a different arena and it comes across clunky and

[00:55:55] it's hard to build trust when that inauthenticity is there yeah Brandon do you think that

[00:56:05] concept will help people get more comfortable with with LinkedIn I want to

[00:56:12] I mean I think I think there's something there I had a big aha moment listening

[00:56:18] to Richard say that while thinking about you and you know I want to play around with that and

[00:56:24] you will probably be able to help me to still that into a framework very quickly but I think there

[00:56:30] is something there with especially senior leaders who tend to be more well Richard you tell me

[00:56:38] where they tend to be I'm not only think there's any like more prevalent personality type for

[00:56:43] CEOs but I do think that there is a when I talk to CEOs about LinkedIn they tend the first thing

[00:56:53] they tend to say is oh I don't have time for it should you start digging deeper and it's like well

[00:56:58] not really sure what to do and then you dig a little bit deeper and that's when they kind of look

[00:57:03] around to make sure no one's listening and they go honestly it scares a crap out of me to do it wrong

[00:57:07] right and and and lose my reputation that's really where most CEOs yeah look at LinkedIn

[00:57:15] yeah that's DNC side and I talked to presidents of organizations and work with different CEOs

[00:57:23] from time to time that dominant personality is what drives them to the top and you think about

[00:57:30] the dominant personality they're driven they push they want if it's a C D C personality they want

[00:57:41] perfection they push for results oriented and so taking a step back or having that time to do

[00:57:50] that then you start getting into some fears of failure fears of looking weird or vulnerable

[00:58:01] or looking a certain way and I promise you I'm not going to use this word to to

[00:58:10] brag on my vocabulary but there is a word called a telephobia

[00:58:17] and the reason why it's at the top of my mind is because when you teach on the whole topic

[00:58:28] of putting on a mask or a fear of being something that you're not it's really the fear

[00:58:37] of imperfection or the fear of never being good enough and that a telephobia is real

[00:58:48] even for the people that are in C suites and cutting through that is so important

[00:59:00] and helping people understand it's just another venue or another way where people can grow with you

[00:59:06] and see a different side of you. Brandon I think what would be a really interesting episode

[00:59:15] and I would love to make sure Carson's here for it is get Christy as well Christy Jones who talks

[00:59:22] a lot about superpower and you're finding your superpower and discovering your superpower

[00:59:27] and kind of mirroring that with some of the things that we've talked about here and I think

[00:59:32] what I'm seeing of course is a framework that could be created here a system that could be created here

[00:59:37] that would really help to overcome some of the resistance and hesitancy to quote unquote

[00:59:47] the personal brand because we've talked about it over and over however you end up doing that

[00:59:54] that personal brand and the reputation and everything that you build with that not only carry

[01:00:01] help you what you're doing right, carry through your whole career, carry through your whole business life

[01:00:07] and it's an area that I think is still perceived as oh that's for somebody else

[01:00:16] it's not for me and I think there's some really good you know Brandon you said the last 8 or 10

[01:00:22] episodes you know we could end up having maybe a super panel of some people to really go through

[01:00:28] some of this stuff that's there yeah yeah my my brain's going in lots of different directions on how

[01:00:35] how we we look at so Jeremy Kubitrick's a friend of mine and and he and his partner with

[01:00:42] giant world war and he said something years ago for me it's really simple and it's always had

[01:00:48] this profound effect is you know you've got to two things and I do John Maxwell says something

[01:00:54] very similar but you gotta know yourself to lead yourself and then the second step is you gotta

[01:01:01] know what it's like to be on the other side of you and that's really the one I want to get to

[01:01:06] what's it like to be on the other side of you take that time and I think that's really what we've

[01:01:12] talked about today is as a seller do you know what it's like to be on the other side of you

[01:01:18] and simultaneously you gotta be on the other side of your buyer and you have to be the one that

[01:01:25] adapts to their style because they're not going to adapt to yours and it doesn't mean being disingenuous

[01:01:30] it just means to be flexible to meet their needs and show up in the personality and let

[01:01:37] the personality trait lead that needs to lead even in especially when it's uncomfortable

[01:01:47] one quick story and I'll close with this gentleman thanks for allowing me to be a part of this

[01:01:52] conversation today but you just remind I we're friend advertising agency right out of college and

[01:01:57] never forget going to a customer to try to sell them and I couldn't get anywhere with them and

[01:02:04] I just they kept talking about their former salesperson that they had and I again being the

[01:02:15] dumbest person in the room I just asked the question and it opened up Pandora's box for me

[01:02:22] because I said what was it about that salesperson that you liked how did they sell you

[01:02:31] this person just opened up and I was just taking notes imagine going to a customer and asking them

[01:02:42] how do you like to be sold? Yeah and that's what you're going and well I don't like to be

[01:02:51] pushed and I really want to be safe with my decisions and they just start telling you what you know

[01:02:57] for me it's all about value I really want to learn about the product or whatever it is you're selling

[01:03:03] or the boat and so that question what's it like being on the other side of me?

[01:03:10] Really is a great question to ask your customers hey what's it like being on the other side of me?

[01:03:15] What would you sleep when I come in? Right and that sounds like a great LinkedIn post right there

[01:03:21] I can hear you typing already he's already writing the post. I'm writing notes so

[01:03:29] yep all right yeah Richard this has been awesome I think we could definitely have a couple of

[01:03:36] new chapters on this I think we just scratched the surface so really really good.

[01:03:41] Can I share this with everybody too I mean I think that this this episode was deeper and

[01:03:49] then a lot of them and I feel like our episodes over the last eight to ten have gotten there too we've

[01:03:54] we've gotten deeper but there's this recurring theme of you you got to do the work I mean

[01:04:05] Christie's been talking about with her new book like you've got to do the work

[01:04:09] Carole was talking about that um I'm just blanking on this name and I can picture

[01:04:16] it anyways we we've heard talking about that over the last probably eight to ten episodes and

[01:04:21] it just keeps coming back to this recurring theme of you got to get in and do the work and

[01:04:26] understand who you are understand how you're showing up and get better at showing up in different

[01:04:31] ways for different people I mean that's really what it seems to be coming down to

[01:04:36] yeah what a great way to close because it is it is a journey and that we say that all the time

[01:04:44] that you want to journey and well it's not just the journey it is understanding where you are at

[01:04:51] in the journey and the road sides along the way and the and the signposts to take you to where

[01:04:57] you want to go because the journey never ends so taking that time and understanding where you

[01:05:03] are at in the journey and what turns you need to make coming up. That's okay all right again thanks Richard

[01:05:13] um branded any final words before we wrap up. No I want to I want to finish up so I can write some more notes

[01:05:23] yeah I think my final word would be you know everything I talk about is is a round like this

[01:05:29] personal branding and it's not because who personal brand is so important it's because our

[01:05:35] our network is our network and I know that that's really right but everything that we should we should

[01:05:40] focus on is how do we know more people and how do we come about more how do we become more known

[01:05:47] by people especially in our industry because it's through those relationships that opportunities happen

[01:05:54] and everything we talked about this today relates to every single element of that I think this was

[01:06:00] really important Richard I knew when we did our pre call that I liked you and and this was going

[01:06:05] to be a good conversation but man my my my respect for you and my desire to keep up in being

[01:06:12] relationship with you is is even higher now so yeah thank you so much. Sure well I've followed

[01:06:18] you guys and watched a lot of your podcast and seen some of the work that you put out I felt

[01:06:23] feel like I've known Tom forever and Brandon used well so thanks for allowing me to blow

[01:06:28] this last few minutes and allowing me to just just kind of riff with you the as you can tell

[01:06:35] much of this is my passion and it's my life's work so thank you both. And thanks for for that

[01:06:41] at the end we keep trying to end but Tom did you hear what he said Tom I feel like I know you.

[01:06:46] I know I know and that is a good one. The social media stuff works.

[01:06:52] Yeah yeah this you know the two qualitative goals that we have around using all of this

[01:06:58] LinkedIn platform stuff is that the people who you want to know or be known by where you

[01:07:04] want your influence that they will say number one I see you everywhere that's our rise above

[01:07:09] the noise and then most importantly I feel like I already know you because when you pick up the

[01:07:15] phone and call them or you send them an email or you run into a mid-a-trade show or you knock

[01:07:20] on their door at their office what are they most likely going to do because they see you

[01:07:24] everywhere and feel like they know you they're going to go oh come come on in right yeah and that's

[01:07:32] all we're trying to do that that's all this whole LinkedIn social media thing is about how

[01:07:37] do we accelerate that by using this crazy stuff called content you know we might make Carson

[01:07:45] Joe this is this is this is pushing one of our longest stuff. I know well we better wrap up quickly

[01:07:50] or we'll wrap it over yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah thanks again Richard thanks everybody for

[01:07:55] listening for the comments Carson will be back next week we'll have another amazing guest I think

[01:08:00] we have another amazing guest next week for and and I know there's a couple of them that we don't

[01:08:04] but I don't know exactly what the with the weeks are there so I forgot I haven't looked I know

[01:08:08] that we do have some blocked off for it's just three of us to come in and talk about what we've

[01:08:13] been learning so Richard thank you again so much. Good morning until next time. Thanks everyone.

[01:08:25] Thank you for joining us today on Mastering Modern Selling. If you enjoyed this episode don't

[01:08:30] forget to subscribe for more insights connect with us on social media and leave a review to help us

[01:08:36] improve stay tuned for our next episode where we will continue to uncover modern strategies

[01:08:41] shaping today's business landscape learn more about fist bump in our healthier service at

[01:08:46] getfisbumps.com mastering modern revenue creation with fist bump where relationships social and

[01:08:52] meat in the fire center age.